2012 Presidential Candidate Straw Poll

I believe the only things getting sucked in in 12 will be the Libtardians-This country is finally awake to what is being done to it in the name of Hope & Change-Most of us don’t have any hope that the Libs will ever change and I really believe that 10 was just the start of it.I admit that I sat the last one out in pure frustration-but never again!

I gotta say, I’m not entirely certain where you picked up on any animosity towards Libertarianism in his comment.

Modern Liberalism*? Definitly animosity for that, as it deserves. Modern Liberalism’s adherents are not good people, to say the least, regardless of their opinions of their own righteous purity.

I’m a jerk, but Modern Liberalism wants to enslave me for straying from it’s whims, where the worst I would do to a Modern Liberal is call him nasty names or defend myself from him.

*The 20th Century bastardization of the word “Liberal” that used to be used to describe the likes of Jefferson, the Levellers, and John Stuard Mill, thus differentiated from Classical Liberalism. For any who might not have known, likely very few.

Sorry, but leaving one liar in place longer does not solve our problems! The very reason we have frequent elections is so the people can throw the TRASH OUT! Mostly American’s have been sleeping through elections…the few who vote either want their goverment to give them more or feel strongly that the government handouts need to stop! (Me) But the 2010 midterm shows that voters have woken up and are fed up with the “gimme gimme crowd”. I believe that the number of voters who show up at the polls in 2012 is going to open some eyes!

Gotta break out of the false dichotomy paradigm, ladies and gentlemen.

If those are your requirements in a candidate you are never again going to be voting. Our system is set up with checks and balances for a good reason…no one person should or could control the power you are asking of them.

What system do you believe could do better? Every other system has virtually no representation for the individual at all! And every system has a “ruling” class…our Republic is the only one that keeps the that class under any kind of control at all.

But but but but…the Iranians! THE IRANIANS!!!!!!

Never mind that 1million Iranians held a candle-light vigil for the victims of 9/11, with government approval, victims of they same people they hated.
Never mind that the Iranians were dying to open up to the US after 9/11.
Never mind that the Iranians offered up ending their support of Hamas and Hezbollah in exchange for a few people from the Taliban, who they hated.
Never mind that the Iranians HATED Iraq and the “axis of evil” was total bullsh*t.
Never mind that this Iraq misadventure has radicalized more Muslims forever and given Iraq to the Iranians on a “golden platter” to use the Saudi king’s words.
Never mind that the uranium being used for their reactors can’t be used for weaponization.
Never mind that the schematics of the missiles they’ve built can’t hold a nuclear warhead.
Never mind that the US, in Iraq, backed the Supreme Islamic Council of Iraq, a group of Iraqi traitors that defected TO IRAN in the Iraq-Iran war, while fighting Al-Sadr, a mercurial nationalist that the Ayatollahs were very wary of.
Never mind that the CIA have discredited every single group in Iran opposed to the Ayatollahs.
Never mind that the “stolen” laptop with Iranian nuclear info came from Mossad.
Never mind that all of this push to attack Iran is because of Israel’s influence on the government, and their agreement to help lie Bush into Iraq if the US government does something about Iran. And why you might ask? Because the
Netanyahu government is worried that Lebanon would be “emboldened” by an Iran with nuclear power, and because the head of the Israeli labor party is worried about a “brain drain.”

Next stop, war with Tehran! Woo! How dare you suggest the government is not being forthright about threats! That’s seditious and counter-productive to the future war effort!

Not to mention that Iran has a population of 70,000,000, which is much larger than the only former check to it’s power, Iraq, who would all ally with the Ayatollahs against foreign invasion. Then there is also the issue of the straits of Hormuz that they could shut off. And the water-skipping supersonic missiles they got from the Russians to use against the fleet in Bahrain. And the fact that attacking the Shi’a center of the world would ignite the Shi’ite populations of Iraq again, and more importantly Saudi Arabia’s Shi’ite population who live in the North East of that “country”…you know, where all the oil fields are.

An invasion of Iraq would also be a gift to Osama Bin Laden of the last thing on his wish-list. It would permanently cement the idea in the heads of the entire world that the US government is at war with Islam, instead of actually making distinctions between groups of stateless radicals based on politics, theology, ethnicity, nationality, or even philosophy. An invasion of Iran would be a clear message to every Muslim in the world, “Yes, Bin Laden was right once again, they ARE at war with you and WILL come to get you, no matter how much they have to lie to do it.”

The US government’s position on Syria is completely contingent on the Israeli government’s whims. It is after all a neighbor of Israel. For the US military to invade and force “regime change” would to do to Syria precisely what they did to Iraq, give radical Islam a place to base their operations even closer to the prize. Al Qaeda was never in Iraq until the US was there, and the goal was never to establish the next stage of a radical islamic empire, they wanted a safe location closer to Israel and they got it until they pissed off the local Sunnis too badly.

No, I don’t think the US will touch Syria unless it devolves into Afghanistan and in that cause it would be to protect Israel’s north-east. Just like how the governments of Bahrain and Yemen are doing the same thing that Libya was/is, but are allied with the Saudis and are indeed getting support from the Saudis and the US through the Saudis.

The goal, has always been Iran. Ever since December of 2001, when Michael Lideen, the Israeli spy in the CIA Lawrence Franklin, and other intelligence people were meeting in Rome to talk about how to justify and start the war with Iran. That has been the deal ever since Bush, Israel helps him get Iraq, and the US deals with Iran. It has never mattered that all of the “intelligence” on Iraqi weapons was bullsh*t and that they knew it. Or that to this date, the most accurate accounting of Iraqi weapons capabilities was a 12,000 page dossier provided by the Iraqi government itself, which was stolen from the UN. The propaganda focus groups finally found the magic bullet in the threat of nukes, that is what pushed the polling over the finish line for them to pull the trigger. And that is EXACTLY what they have been pushing with Iran for years, along with this 12th Imam crap.

Obama’s promises of negotiating with the Iranians were all BS, diplomacy with this government is never anything more than a pretext to war. After all, it looks much more reasonable when you can say “Look, we tried to talk to them, look how many times we tried, but they’re just too unreasonable!”

The Iranian government even agreed to a deal proposed by the Obama administration to swap their nuclear material for stuff that the West could guarantee wasn’t weapons material, the only catch was they didn’t want to rely on the French to make the delivery because they got screwed over that way in the 70s. They then said, “ok we agree, but let’s not use the French.” Then the administration made a big show of throwing up their hands and with a vexed sigh shouting “YOU CAN’T DEAL WITH THESE PEOPLE.” Several people resigned in the past because the negotiations with Iran were never serious and started raceforiran.com

The Ayatollah’s aren’t stupid or crazy. Crazy like a fox maybe, but they have self-interest at heart as well.

I don’t think Libya is indicative of anything bigger, it was about European oil and keeping it out of China’s hands. Perhaps it was the US government making a gesture to NATO of solidarity, in hopes that NATO comes with when Iran starts.

And it probably will start, Israel has said several times, “if you don’t deal with it, we will.” And if Israel starts it, the US will be in it, we have a war guarantee with the Israelis just like Germany with Austria-Hungary in WW1, the UK with Poland in WW2, and the entirety of NATO.

There actually was a time when I would have thought Elmerfud71 and Dan_Tumser were just reactionary bomb-throwing conspiracy theorists looking to shake things up.

Now I know they’re up to something more insidious.

They’re trying to wake you up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTahZE4q90U&feature=feedlik

It was fairly obvious when Iran recently offered to put its nuclear material in the hands of other people to regulate and control it, and they were turned down. Then the rhetoric on their nuclear capability just continued.

I didn’t know many of the other details you listed, but knew the general scheme that we have been playing.

It would be nice if the majority of Americans started acting like they are polled. Like they don’t trust our government.

How about freedom? Genuine freedom, not the sham foisted on us by old barbaric assumptions maintained by those in power.

http://www.voluntaryist.com/
http://www.agorism.info/NewLibertarianManifesto.pdf
http://www.agorism.info/AgoristClassTheory.pdf
http://www.kopubco.com/pdf/An_Agorist_Primer_by_SEK3.pdf

Let’s stop being complicit in our own subjugation.

According to your links, you are just another Marxist who thinks it hasn’t been “done right” yet! Marxism does not yet, Marxism with a twist will not work either.

Ya…I’m curious, too. What is the solution? I agree…both parties are pretty much the same, but you have to admit that what we have now is brutally brutal. Any way to change our current path, even the slightest bit, is beneficial.

I am a pilot, while flying, it is very important to stay on your course heading. While a 1 degree difference over a short distance is negligible, a 1 degree course differential over a 1000 miles brings you off course over 17 miles.

If you think these Repub potentials are no different, fine. I’m here to say even a small change for the better will potentially keep us on course until we can get a presidential hopeful that really will stand for change.

Look, I understand an agorist like you and why you don’t like or trust government. I would say I agree with many points that you do, e.g. free-markets and the benefits of entrepreneurship, but this country is more conservative than anarchist. We will never be to a point of not having a president. So don’t we have the responsibility to vote with whom we agree the most rather than not voting at all. Inactivity in a republic is very irresponsible.

Why do you always have to act on your convictions? Don’t you realize that it would just be better to bow down and serve the system? A vote for one bad guy over the other is still a vote for the lesser bad guy. Come on, fall in line soldier. Don’t you realize that we are in multiple tiered perpetual wars against every aspect of societal degradation according to your commanders in chief? How dare you question their supreme authority. How dare you refuse to be involved in the collective ritual of electing democratic oligarchs.

so vote for Sarah.

A bit of “Cowboy” wisdom is in order here,
1. Never interfere with something that ain’t bothering you none.
2. Any government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you got.
3. Never drop your gun to hug a grizzly bear.

The way that I would put it is that we do not need a president because there is no one man that should ever have that much power over another man or society.

We do not need a congress or a senate either. If we limit our laws to those of natural law, we no longer need law makers.

Without this government, we would have no forced taxation or welfare. No taking of one man’s assets and giving to another. In this world we would only have real free trade and no government created monopolies. We would still have a need to protect our border, but his can be done just the same as local communities would do it. By armed individuals who have the right to defend themselves.

Man will never escape the desire of others to take what you have. Government just does it by legal edict. In a truly free society, anyone who tries, has to risk their own life to do it.

Without government supplying weapons to rouge groups through the FBI, ATF, and CIA, many of these cartels would not exist. They wouldn’t exist if government did not make drugs and the like illegal. Government only causes problems. It does not solve them. Since the beginning of this country, we have only gone down hill and lost what we supposedly started with. We were better off when King George was thousands of miles away, and each province could be self determinant in some ways.

This centralized government that we have created has only served to take away our prosperity and control every aspect of our lives. It is now become too big to control on a political level.

That shows just how far you read of what I posted for the other two guys above. I’m a Capitalist through and through, and an Austrian Economist. I praise the capitalists of society, I love the free market, and consider Market Entrepreneurs to be some of the greatest humanitarian forces in human history.

What I despise are political entrepreneurs, corporations for their being a creation of the State, and the businessmen and bankers who make investments in Congresscritters.

Lol, I had to wiki that, and I don’t have the first clue. =P

Haha, which guy is that? Ludwig Von Mises, FA Hayek, Frederic Bastiat, David Friedman, Murray Rothbard, William Godwin, Hans-Hermann Hoppe?

I have been around long enough to know that congress is never going to audit or end the Fed. The call for this has been going on longer than Ron Paul has been in congress. I’m pretty sure I remember Goldwater calling for the same thing, it didn’t happen for him,it won’t happen for Paul.