Prager's emphasis is correct, but he fails to see why RMoney CAN'T campaign on values. He's a lib, and his values are essentially those of other liberals. He can't distinguish himself talking values.
So he has to offer himself up as an economy fixer, someone who will do a better job than O without basically changing the general liberal drift of the country.
And Prager is right, he will lose.
Some of us are trying very hard to re-wed liberty and virtue again. This change has to be from the bottom up. Individuals, then families. That is what will change the country. Watch the video. It is very inspiring.
Romney must also talk about obama's outrageous spending.
New TV ad about obama’s wasteful spending
This is hard news for those who love to try divorcing fiscal conservatism from social conservatism. It cannot be done. It is conservatism. Just as it is on the left. Has anyone heard what a fiscal liberal despises in a social liberal? What separates a fiscal liberal from a social liberal, anyone?
I believe that the MSM loves continuing and some conservatives to drive this "wedge" making people believe that you can be one and not the other. GWB was not a big spending social conservative. Why? because that is not what conservatism is. GWB was at best in his second term a big hearted moderate.
It is what we believe in that we will spend or cut our finances upon. There is no other way around this hard fact of life. TRS and Prager are both correct here. Many threads ago, one person was trying to convince me that marriage had no economic impact upon our country. That is a gross misunderstanding of how our beliefs/values are foundational to our economic health.
We all look at life through that which we value the most.
"Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us."
John Hancock, 1st one who signed the Declaration of Independence--History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229.
"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?"
Thomas Jefferson Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.
"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."
--John Adams- part of a June 28, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson.
About the democrat's state of values:
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them."
Patrick Henry, American colonial revolutionary
"Many free countries have lost their liberty, and ours may lose hers; but if she shall, be it my proudest plume, not that I was the last to desert, but that I never deserted her. I know that the great volcano at Washington, aroused and directed by the evil spirit that reigns there, is belching forth the lava of political corruption in a current broad and deep, which is sweeping with frightful velocity over the whole length and breadth of the land, bidding fair to leave unscathed no green spot or living thing; while on its bosom are riding, like demons on the waves of hell, the imps of that evil spirit, and fiendishly taunting all those who dare resist its destroying course with the hopelessness of their effort; and, knowing this, I cannot deny that all may be swept away. Broken by it I, too, may be; bow to it I never will.
[Note: spoken in 1839]
I did not hear Prager mention the basis for right values- God, Who is the Author of liberty and the Standard.
"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."
Charles Carroll, signer of the Declaration of Independence
(source of quote above)http://www.cancertutor.com/Quotes/Quotes_Presidents.html
(source of quotes below) http://www.thelandofthefree.net/quotationchristian.html
"The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scripture ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws. All the miseries and evil men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible." - Noah Webster
America is crumbling.
"History fails to record a single precedent in which nations subject to moral decay have not passed in to political and economic decline." - Douglas MacArthur, Supreme Commander of Allied Forces in the Pacific during WWII
"The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: 'that God governs in the affairs of men.' And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?" - Benjamin Franklin
"If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan
You couldn't PICK a more disqualified candidate to speak out on values for the GOP than Obamney!
What? Do you think we're stupid? That we're just going to come running because Mr two-faced embraces our values to win an election? How friggin insulting can a person be? This man did everything he could to destroy the family in MA. What in God's name do you think we're going to do? Forget all of that?
Obamney will win or lose based upon the votes of brainwashed Republicans turned liberal in the GOP, not because values voters are behind him. I'm not.
You wanted a nominee that reflected liberal values? You got him. Live with him. The GOP didn't care about our opinion, so now we could care less about yours.
Romney in his speech talked about fairness. Fairness is not only a leftist value, conservatives also care about fairness. Only extreme right-wingers like Prager see fairness as a bad thing.
And only extremists like Prager put their abstract ideology over the actual economic conditions of real Americans. Even extreme conservative politicians who don't care one bit for ordinary Americans at least pretend they do. They pretend their policies are good for working people. Only on the radio can right-wingers be honest about their indifference.
Well, I'm a right winger and fairness is a liberal value as it is used today. Fairness is silencing one group to elevate another...usually the group in the minority.
You are thinking like a liberal friend.
What values? He can't run on values. Come on. Virtue? He is right about this. He may lose - almost nothing is so simple. But, Romney is the wrong guy to be running, let alone running on values.
The elite GOP establishment had the best candidate to go against BHO, a constitutional conservative with a proven record, has been taking on BHO since 2008, unfortunately for the country Governor palin is not in this race. I'm sure that BHO and the libs are very happy about this because she ws their biggest threat. Governor Palin has been living rent free in BHOs head rent free since 2008 that is why they spew bs about her and the elite gop establishment join in with the libs because she is a threat to tge gop. The gop is worried about an open convention because if this happens their chosen candidate may be in trouble. That is why theGOP is pushing an admitted progressive liberal republican down our throats and try to pawn him off as a conservative. My message to the GOP it is not working. Take a good look at the primary turn out, doesn't that tell you something? Very low turn out tells me people are not happy with the elite DC establishment candidate, now they can't be that ignorant of these numbers or could they?
While reading this string my thought kept going to the party conventions that will take place in all the states that send delegates to State Conventions and then those that get to go to the National Convention. Work in those conventions to get this Party Back. I hope that Tea Party People are working hard to get Represented. The economy and basic values are going to be the primary reason people wioll go to the polls. A candidate has to put the outline of thier convention as a foundation to thier candicy. This is still a ground roots fight. It is one thing to write your thoughts on this site and another to put them into action. Love to read your thoughts and place mine on this screen but, I implore you to go to your local convention and make your thoughts be actions. "Change" does not come from the top, it comes from the bottom up.
Well, tag on a national right-to-work law and a serious fix to the illegal infestation and you're hitting my top 3 pain points for this election. I'd also like to see some good tax reform (FairTax).
I agree with you 100% but, if Romney (the presumptive nominee) beats out Obama, he will have to employ a lot of serious, hard hitting conservatives with very thick shells to help him do this, along with a Republican Congress and Senate.
That, IMHO, is what is being overlooked as we all desperately want to see Obama defeated - aside from a new President, majorities in both houses - with people who share our values and principles are the only way meaningful reform will take place.
We had a similar situation in our last Canadian election where the COnservative party finally achieved a majority and finally, good things are beginning to happen.
Right on. How about a flat 11 % tax across the board. In my book, that is "Fair." To channel O'Rielly, what say you?
Santorum ran on values and he lost - even though his values are much better values than the demoncrats have.
Romney has no values... not really... to date, he's done a very poor job of emphasizing conservative values. Apparently, his selling point to the dumbmasses was his supposed financial/economic skills - not his values.
Not trying to be a hater... this guy is right. But once again, the irony that we chose the worst candidate out of the 10 or so that ran is unbelievable. The GOP chose a flip-flopping moderate to represent... too pathetic for words.
Right, mostly. Romney's strength is as a super-successful, even hyper-successful businessman, and the business of America is business...or at least it should be if we are to survive as a freemarket, entrepreneurial, capitalistic society.
I was a bit harsh, with the "dolt" thing above. I should've inserted the word "political" in front of it, as in "political dolt". I didn't know he was a conservative or what, I just thought it bad advice.
Obama wants to talk about anything and everything except the economy. Hammer the economy and founding principles which caused us to soar past every other country as if they were chained down. That word "values" can mean so many different things. It is a watered down, overused term that is basically meaningless.
This battle seems to be Marxism versus Capitalism. If those competing "values" are what he is referring to, then I'd agree with that. If he is advising Romney to preach Christianity in the general election, he'll lose more votes than he gains in this country IMO. He'd be treading on very thin ice without a lifejacket or an insulated wetsuit. Sad to say, but that's where we are.
Now if he wants to bring in religious freedom for all (Catholics certainly included) to nail O' and Sebelius to the first amendment wall, that'll fly too.
If Romney is nominated, he should take a page from Paul Ryan's playbook:
"In an interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network, Rep. Ryan talked about the Catholic idea of “subsidiarity,“ saying it means ”not having big government crowd out civic society, but … having enough space in our communities so that we can interact with each other” and take care of people.
“To me, the principle of subsidiarity, which is really federalism, meaning government closest to the people governs best,” he said."
These remarks were at Georgetown University, as he defended his budget - in the face of George Soros-funded protesters.
The GOP chose a flip-flopping moderate to represent... too pathetic for words.
When you say the GOP chose Romney, do you mean the voters?
Prager is right.
Of course, it's "the Economy, stupid", but in order to sustain and rebuild an economy, you need a strong foundation. Romney has to fight for the economy along with core values in order to move not only the economy forward, but to restore the family, the building block of any country which in turn, moves the economy forward. Everything we hold sacred is under assault daily. The progressives don't hide it anymore and are hellbent on destroying or minimizing what what we hold dear.
Here's the latest assault on values.
This is what I think Santorum brought to the table that none of the others got. He was able to connect the dots between virtue and liberty.
Washington's Farewell Address c.1796:
“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity...And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”
I liked Romney's take on Clinton's line: "It's still about the economy... and we're not stupid." I agree that values are important, but I don't think that Obama's "values" are anything like most Americans' values, ergo, people will reject him.
Well, sure. How can a muslim, indonesian, kenyan have similar values to an American? Not possible, but we all know that.
Who need VALUES and CONSTITUTION, if selling point are
WHO HAVE MORE MONEY TO SMEAR ENEMY.
and Husseincare have more VALUES ( socialist, communist, afrofascist, marxist ) than Rmoneycare WITHOUT any VALUES at ALL. ( maybe it have some kind of moron values, at the end)
A great battle for Romney to take on is Obama's assault on the Catholic Church over the abortion matter. This would be a great issue for Romney to show people not only how conservative he really is, but that he is also standing up for Freedom of Religion in this country. It's a perfect issue that shows what happens when the Federal Government gets too big and what constitutional rights it destroys when that happens. Romney would be very smart to take this on, especially if Obamacare is upheld by the Supreme Court (I hope not).
You are assuming that Romney is a "real" conservative. I am unsure how many are willing to take that leap off the cliff of reality.
He'd have a tough time taking on Obama's assault on the catholic church over the abortion matter because of his own record in MA:
I have no idea how Romney will campaign against Obama, we know how he campaigned against our conservative contenders. In the end it will definitely be our values that will determine the course of our nation and the values espoused by the democrats are not the values of a strong, God fearing, prosperous nation.
Anyone who reads the Bible knows that this election is about values. Everything that is considered good by God, is despised by the left. And now this includes hard work as demonstrated by the proposed regulations banning farm chores by children of farmers. Now we know why the majority of Obama voters are members of the recipient class (taking more from the government than they contribute). They are anti-life, anti-Christ, anti-morals, anti-work, anti-freedom and totally Godless. The economy will never recover when the majority of Americans pay no taxes and benefit by government handouts while supplementing their income with "under the table" and unlawful income.
Etch-a-sketch will lose because he has no values. We aren't paying attention to any thing he says so if he finally saw the light, sorry to say, it is too late for him or the Republican party establishment.
The voters will not show up in November to support corrupt #1 or corrupt#2.
The Republican Party is dead. We all know there will never be another conservative candidate for POTUS again. Better to accept that fact now and move on. RIP.
Um, I think the left is fighting on their "values" because the economy stinks on ice. Anyways, I thought Romney did a great job at using the fairness card against the left in his recent speech.
Stealth loser advice from a dolt. I don't even know who this guy is or which side he is on but he's giving dumb advice. Those who want Obama to win would like nothing better than to see the Republican side waste a lot of breath on values they disagree with. Those same people who constantly say, don't impose your morality on me(!) while they ram their values down our throats like they were packing gunpowder and a ball into a flintlock rifle to fire at the next freedom lover.
Dennis is talking about the values in the Declaration and Constitution. He is talking about the values of free men and free markets, property rights, equal justice under the law, The Bill of Rights. If we do not talk about these values and why they are better than what the left has to offer, then most Americans will never know. When you say "the rule of law" you must give the less preferable alternative, which is the rule of man. The two visions must be contrasted and explained. Romney can do this in a speech that's written for him, but it is not part of his fiber. He will have to do for now and hopefully in Nov., we can reference the end of the movie "Babe" and say "that'll do Mitt".
And we need this reminder again and again when we have to sacrificially make those hard decisions in cutting the huge spending of DC. If not, we will have anarchy just like Greece and Spain. Again this does suppose that Romney will actually make real cuts, but nothing the GOP seems to guarantee that.
I haven't read his book, but if Prager's point is what you are saying it is than I agree 100 percent. Abandoning these things is why the economy sucks. And I also agree with you that Romney is not about these values. He may give them lip service, but he is a statist.
Where would Romney have been exposed to them? His father was centrist, he attended Harvard for an MBA and Law Degree and then stayed in Massachusetts. My guess is he is a Republican because his father was.
Romney can do this in a speech that's written for him, but it is not part of his fiber.
This is what concerns me most.
I don't think Dennis Prager is a dolt, what I agree with you about is Romney's disadvantage in arguing values. If he chooses to go down that road he will lose because of exactly what you said, the majority of people have become so secular, and Romney's strong points are of a secular position (the economy) not in his values in a sense of morality as defined by Christian conservatism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNUc8nuo7HI Enough said.
I remember you as a Huntsman guy from the get-go, so naturally, I discount everything else you say to the level of a K-Mart Bluelight Special.
More than enough said :-)
IMO, you should at least have held some sort of public office if you're to possibly assume the office of POTUS.