DNC Chair: Unemployment has not gone up under Obama

Posted by The Right Scoop on December 12th, 2011 in Politics | 133 Comments

Somebody please get Debbie Wasserman Schultz’s head out of the washing machine because it is clearly in the spin cycle! You know, that unbalanced spin cycle where the washing machine is shaking back and forth.

DWS has gone nut-so trying to suggest that the unemployment rate hasn’t gone up under Obama. Seriously:

Ed Morrissey at HotAir did the hard work on a few statistics to contradict the DNC Chair:

Jobless rate in January 2009: 7.8%. Jobless rate in November 2011: 8.6%.
Number of employed in January 2009, in thousands: 133,563. In November 2011: 131,708
Civilian participation rate in January 2009: 65.7%. In November 2011: 64.0%
Unemployment level in January 2009, in thousands: 11,984. In November 2011: 13,303
Number of people not in labor force, January 2009, in thousands: 80,554. In November 2011: 86,558

I think what DWS is trying and failing hard at doing is to reclaim the narrative that unemployment has gone way up under Obama and she’s trying to capitalize on the latest drop to 8.6% to do that. But we know that the drop to 8.6% had more to do with people leaving the work force than it did with actual growth.

Besides, what’s she gonna do when it goes back up after Christmas?

—

Digg Digg

Comment Policy: Please read our new comment policy before making a comment. In short, please be respectful of others and do not engage in personal attacks. Otherwise we will revoke your comment privileges.

Anonymous
DWS, SJL, and NP are the most despicable characters in all of American politics.
http://twitter.com/doorsxp Doors Xp
Apparently her point is that unemployment has not gone up EVERY month since Obama took office.

Anonymous
Oh well, that’s waaaaaay better.
Geez, she puts morons to shame.

Anonymous
Perhaps she likes the vibration the washing machine causes, as we ALL know where her head is really stuck. I’ll say no more.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6KRHXVK5ZCSWJ5GJQ5Z6GIJICA Dax
This girl, yes girl, has absolutely no integrity. If you live in Florida and you voted for this sorry excuse for a congressman, you may be as confused, uninformed and misguided as “the reverend” Al Shapton’s congregation.

Anonymous
I am with you! I am always surprised how people like Wasserman get elected! For saying what and for doing what? She has a record so far for making one stupid statement after the other, I guess for every single curl.
She belongs to the Goebbels-like propaganda machine.

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
I’ll tell you one more time. only 15% of the people vote. So, the DNC rounds up a bunch, gives them voting status, some out of graveyards, and Whaala! Another Dem in DC representing you. It is so easy to stop, just have honest people working at the poll, it can even be you. The DNC uses any method that will work, Gobbels, Japanese, Nazi, or La Duce.Hang together or hang seperately.

Anonymous
Jan, 2009, Unemployment = 7.8%
Nov, 2011, Unemployment = 8.6%
In fact, unemployment has not gone lower than 7.8% in ANY month since His Pimpness took office.
Does DWS think we are stupid?

Anonymous
Unemployment is really 16% anyway. Why we don’t use the U6 instead of the U3 is beyond me. It’s just another political tool.

Anonymous
Obama has a simple way to lower unemployment: incentivize people to leave the work force. How to do that? Simple: extend unemployment benefits. Hold on, that’s exactly what he’s done. So basically, he’s using tax payers money to pay people not to look for work, so that unemployment looks lower than it is!

Anonymous
Think about it, you can have every single American sit at home on the couch and watch television, and unemployment will be at 0%, because none of them searched for employment in the last three months!

Anonymous
Problem solved. I think we’re on to something here. And paid for by the top 1%, too.

Anonymous
I think a good way to ensure that nobody gets off the couch is to make a safety regulation that all employees must wear helmets on the job.
Even better, then must hold their breath. This will solve the health problems associated with poor workplace air quality. (Incidentally, it will bring unemployment within range of Obama’s coveted 0%).
If this doesn’t do it, how about an environmental law requiring that businesses may not produce any CO2 whatsoever. Close them all down, and three months later, viola, unemployment (and emissions) at 0%. Obama would be a hero!

Anonymous
Not to worry. The UN just came up with some environmental legislation where they will fine countries if they don’t reduce CO2 by “100%” by 2020. 100%? We would have to live in caves, but would not be allowed to start fires to stay warm.

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
No NO NO. He changes the way unemployment is figured. He has done it several times. He leaves nothing to chance.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6KRHXVK5ZCSWJ5GJQ5Z6GIJICA Dax
Yes let’s please stop saying unemployment is 8 or 9 percent. Everytime Fox or any other station says that it makes me cringe. Do your research or stop lying to us. Unemployment is over 15%!

Anonymous
Please…. don’t make me watch this!
Anonymous
I can’t even listen to her. I always end up pissed and screaming at something when I hear her voice. lol
Anonymous
Nope! I just can’t watch!
I’m movin’ on over to JihadWatch instead. The subject matter is easier on my stomach.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1396855720 Brian Jones
Sorry Scoop! Last time I watched this “woman”, my remote ended up inside my TV. I just can’t do that again! Needless to say, I feel fully confident whatever she said was an utter lie.
Anonymous
DWS is living proof of what happens when good looking breeds with dumb.
Now… on to JIhadWatch

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQI5D66OXO7X2FE4NVCZC7BAMA Joe
Wait – Is that like OWS?

Anonymous
No… the subject matter is easier than even OWS.

Anonymous
I guess the ‘good looking’ genes are in recession.
Anonymous
I get the dumb part, where does good looking come from? Wait let me put on my beer goggles.

Anonymous
Heh heh… I guess there IS no accounting for taste.

Anonymous
Calling it like it is, don’t like what I see or hear from that moron

Anonymous
Her hair looks like it went through the spin cycle too many times.
Anonymous
Debbie Dear, I think you’re mixing your meat with your dairy again. It’s causing a severe mental reaction.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQI5D66OXO7X2FE4NVCZC7BAMA Joe
Gino
Not too many people will get that joke

Anonymous
Oy!

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQI5D66OXO7X2FE4NVCZC7BAMA Joe
VEY!

http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada
took the word right out of my mouth Yosl

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQI5D66OXO7X2FE4NVCZC7BAMA Joe
ABC – I am impressed !

http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada
a sheynem dank! I’ve got a lot of hidden talents lol!

Anonymous
Well you and ABC did. What more can I ask for?

http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada
lying disgusting evil people (that’s being polite!) These people make me want to throw up. I can’t even find the words for how much these people disgust me.

poljunkie
I can, but I dont want R Scoop or Ken to ban me!

http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada
I hear ya there…. I just didn’t want to get struck by lightning

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
You are being too nice. Then, if you really knew what they do, what would you do? Hint, human experiments.

cabensg
Putting those curls in her hair has pulled all her brains out. If they’d just loosen up the curling iron…to late all the brain matter is gone.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQI5D66OXO7X2FE4NVCZC7BAMA Joe
ROFL

Anonymous
Delusional? Or Scripted? You have got to understand they don’t care about the American people they are still trying to appeal to the world audience. They know this trash is not real, but they will spew this garbage knowing full well the American people won’t buy in to it. The world audience will.
http://twitter.com/doorsxp Doors Xp
Obama promised we’d be at 6.2% unemployment right now, not 8.6%:
http://www.therightsphere.com/wp-content/uploads/Dec-unemployment-stimulus-graph.png

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQI5D66OXO7X2FE4NVCZC7BAMA Joe
CLOSE ENOUGH FOR GOVERNMENT WORK !

Anonymous
Oh for crying out loud.
Gretchen said that unemployment was precipitously higher than when Obama took office.
Debbie then lied and said Gretchen said it was going up. Gretchen didn’t say that.
This is why liberals always win. They lie through their teeth and get away with it while everyone is trying to figure out what they really meant to say.

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
This is what you get, with a lying media, and too many people trying to ‘figure out’ what they are saying, or who could win. Kiss. Keep it simple, sweetie.

Anonymous
http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cpsatab1.htm
By the KISS method!
Number employed in the USA
Jan 2008 144,607,000
Nov 2011 141,070,000
537,000 fewer people were employed last month than were employed when Obama took office! It is well known that the employment rate is adjusted and tampered with by the labor department.

Anonymous
Yeah… and when people drop out of the labour market and are removed from the statistical rolls… then unemployment go down. Funny how that works.

Linky1
The more she says it, the more this fantasy will become fact in her tiny socialist mind.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQI5D66OXO7X2FE4NVCZC7BAMA Joe
Further PROOF these nuts are from another Planet
Something went awry with her FOIL HAT
Messed up her hair AND head pretty badly
The word FACTS – is NOT in the space alien dictionary !

Anonymous
Joe, it’s an acronym. False Assertions Cancel TruthS. Look in the liberals code book.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQI5D66OXO7X2FE4NVCZC7BAMA Joe
Gino –
Here is your reward
I know Sal Monella
and his sister in law – Donna Gonnahrea
I lived across the street from them in Flatbush
CLICK HERE >> http://youtu.be/UFgVlu5aY6Q
Just in case you missed this from Imus

Anonymous
Hysterical. Reminds me of my late uncle Nat from DeKalb Avenue.

KenInMontana
Sorry Scoop I don’t really think that she has her head in a washing machine, it is obviously squarely up her own backside.

Anonymous
Aren’t the intestines twisted as well.
Sorry there Ken… couldn’t resist the mental image your comment imposed upon me.

http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada
K- now I need mind bleach thank you both

Anonymous
’tis to laugh… is it not?
I keep gallons of the stuff on hand every time I hear libs speak.

KenInMontana
That would explain the Hairdo.

Anonymous
Believe us Liberals or believe your lying conservative eyes.
What is LOL is that Liberals can actually talk themselves into believing this hooey.

Anonymous
Well, I guess you know what I’m going to say: DWS is also the perfect example of why so many American Jewish men are embracing shicksas, to save their sanity.
Anonymous
I like the quip that Sun Media’s Ezra Levant uses… “too stupid to be Jewish”. Works in this case.

Anonymous
In related lies, did you also hear that pigs were taking to the skies in all 50 states and the several U.S. territories? Heck yes, we’ve now got the Pink Porker’s Aerobatic Team, The Oinkerbirds Aerobatic Team as well as the standard non-flying pigs in DC’s democratic chambers, who remain rooted in swill of their own creation.
Unfortunately, that swill has been spilling out, into and across flyover country, where regular, patriotic Americans would rather use knives, forks and spoons while Debbie continues with her slop shovel.

Anonymous
60… that’s sixty states according to O. 57 plus two more to go, not including Alaska… that makes sixty.

Anonymous
If we were speaking of various ‘states’ of altered conciousness, ‘twould be in the millions.

Anonymous
There’s only one state of consciousness with these people… and that would be the state of “dumb”.

Anonymous
Close but no cigar. It’s……….”I’ve now been in 57 States with one left to go. Alaska and Hawaii I wanted to go to but my staff wouldn’t justify it”

Anonymous
Thanks for the correction… I have a hard time keeping the bs ordered in my mind.
P.S. He used to be just in Hawaii… and never in continental US.

Anonymous
P.S. Rush-ill7… have you noticed lately that you have to fight the numbers on Scoop’s postings when you want to post a comment. I wonder if he’s noticed an uptick in traffic lately. I liked when the comments were lower in number. I hate having to click “next page” when viewing comments.
Oh well! The price of success, I guess.

Anonymous
Yep, once a thread gets over a hundred or so, it’s tough to determine what’s going on. Over 200 and fugetaboutit :-I

Anonymous
OK guys, I can take a hint. Guess I’ll go find some liberal site and annoy them.
Anonymous
Rshill7, fugetaboutit???? Who gave you permission to speak Joisee? (How bout Eli yesterday)

Anonymous
Hey you two.. this DWS stuff is bringing the woist outamee. I think I’m gonna put on some Christmas music and decorate the tree.
And P.S. still no snow here north of the “you don’t wanna live there” line.

http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada
Stupid global warming.
Merry Christmas you hoser http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEbUtpPQihM
Anonymous
Huh? We’ve had snow a few times. Never more than 1/2 inch but, you live in the freakin’ Klondike right. Dudley Doright and all that?

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
And, the peope are so nice, like the Delightful Sarah.

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
La la la la la.

Anonymous
He’s my boy. I’d like to noogie him on the head.

Anonymous
Even obama does not lie as continuosly, as stupidly, and as relentlessly as DWS. This woman must have a terrible time dealing with reality in any area of life.
CHILD: “Debbie, this cereal tastes terrible.”
DWS: “But it tastes much better than before obama took office, so that’s good. And it’s healthier for you than a Republican cereal.”
CHILD: “Healthier? Is that why it’s green? Wait – Republicans make cereal?”
Anonymous
This is why the left is dangerous and needs to be defeated. Stop reaching across the aisle and just defeat them.
deo heerai
Debbie Wasserman Shultz head of the Democratic NUTBAG Association
http://www.facebook.com/people/Chris-Dias/1680711668 Chris Dias
I’m not able to see a lot of the videos today. I wonder if it’s this communist country censoring the info. Hmm.

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
Anyone who thinks their phone, PC or TV is uncensored is simple minded.

Anonymous
She is disgusting…
Why are liberal women so dam ugly?

Anonymous
Actually… she’s the very rare exception. It’s what she says that makes my stomach turn.

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
Believe me, evil can be beautiful. Trust in deeds, not skin. From my experience the devil must be good looking. Remember, “Damn Yankees”?

Anonymous
“DNC Chair: Unemployment has not gone up under Obama”
Apparently she is using the new “Democratic Math” .
Didn’t Democrats have enough problems with the old system of math?
Anonymous
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate
Unemployment Jan 2009-Dec 2011
poljunkie
Did she blame Bush?
Anonymous
One can only hope her pity remarks about the economy, jobs, foreign affairs, etc will follow her down to FL and the voting booth – and her opponent will expose her for the partisan IDIOT that she is. This person has to GO !!

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
Get real.

Anonymous
OK… I’m gonna watch the clip now… I’m going in… so send a search party if I don’t return.

Anonymous
Nooooooooooooooo!

Anonymous
I’m back… forty seconds … GONE! I can’t get them back. And I need a shower.

http://no-apologies-round2.blogspot.com/ AmericanborninCanada
Don’t forget the bleach.

deo heerai
This is what i feel should happen to Debbie Wasserman Shultz every time she opens her mouth
http://s1089.photobucket.com/albums/i360/deoheerai/?action=view&current=820876611.gif

Anonymous
Yeah… but like OWS… they keep comin’ back.

deo heerai
Parasites always do

Anonymous
Obama will soon or later be part of the unemployment statistic. He and Michelle won’t be able to work as lawyers anymore as both had to surrender their licenses, but they like food-stamps anyway…….
Anonymous
Why. Don’t they tell the truth about the real numbers of people unemployed? Oh I forgot the libs have to start selling their BS to the American people so if they say it enough people will start to believe it. A page out of Alinsky,s play book. They have to pump up Obama’s record so he will GOD FORBID win another term. I have a news alert for the libs the American people woke up and do not like what this president is doing to this great country. We are not socialist and do not want to be socialist. Obama is in campaign mode so now he will attend church on Sundays. His favorite mantra is not my fault, always blames the other people. Time to put the blame where it belongs, right on YOU! People may like you personally, but they sure as hell DON’t LIKE WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO THIS GREAT COUNTRY! As the saying goes”you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all the people all the time” you and your fellow libs think the American people are not as smart as you are and think that they will believe anything you are telling them, not true. The American people are not buying what you are selling, perhaps all your RICH lib friends and donors are!

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
Now, go vote!

Anonymous
Political cartoon:
A man walks up to O’ and says, “I’ve been unemployed for 24 months!”
O’ says, “Congratulations, according to statistics you are no longer unemployed.”

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQI5D66OXO7X2FE4NVCZC7BAMA Joe
No Joke – That’s ME !
Let him walk up to me – He’ll be singing falsetto

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
You are much too kind.

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
Let them eat cake.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Mark-James/582247922 Mark James
I don’t want to take her head out of the washing machine. Let her keep speaking. This is great for us.
Anonymous
This woman is an Idiot.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQI5D66OXO7X2FE4NVCZC7BAMA Joe
You don’t get it
On HER PLANET of O’anus – She is brilliant !
If you want I can send you a FOIL HAT so you can hear the COMMANDS too!

Mike Florey
Actually, the washing machine is not where her head is stuck…
Anonymous
Part of me really wonders who believes this spun and twisted ‘truth’? Sure, in some sense of the phrase what she says might possibly be true if you apply it to certain specific months, however, her intent is obviously to stated that Obama is far superior to Bush and the Republicans when it comes to the economy… not what the ‘truth’ which could possibly be extracted from her statement actually supports.
This comes to the question: what is a lie? Is it ‘lying’ when you say something which could be true under a certain point of view, but you intentionally use it with the intent to deceive your audience into believing something completely false?
Or is it only considered a ‘lie’ when what you state is inherently and completely false?
I think anything stated with the intent to deceive or with an intent to instill an incorrect belief, is a ‘lie’. This, obviously IS a lie.
I am so sick of these lies, of the White House policies, and of people trying to manipulate and deceive good people into slavery.

Anonymous
Holder says ‘a lie is only a state of mind’. I have a state of mind to kick them all out.
Anonymous
obama leads by example.. kagan the pagen lies, eric (hold back e-mails) holder lies, jon (i do not know where 1billion went) cosine lies, now (i want to be blonde)dws lies . it is either they believe were too stupid to know a lie when told to us. or they believe we can’t handle the truth.

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
I would like to know where the trillion China lent us, went?

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
Gosh, you must have read about USSR literature. A lie, is a lie, is a lie.

Anonymous
lol… I think you missed my point.
I was giving the administration the benefit of a doubt in their intentions, while still calling into question the obvious problem: They keep telling these flat lies, and the only reason I can think of why they are is simply because either we believe it, or no one cares.
But, as to your post: yes, you are right, “a lie, is a lie, is a lie”, however, you still didn’t define it.
My point is that a lie, in my mind, takes into consideration intentions and deceit more than actual ‘truth’, and above all, lies depend on perspective. Let me give an example: I see a gray mass in the jungle that I identify as a boulder, obviously a boulder from my point of view, as I see no other identifying features. You, on the other hand, are on the other side of said ‘boulder’, and can see that it has tusks, a trunk, and four legs. If I tell someone that it is a boulder, what I clearly saw, is that a ‘lie’? It is not a boulder, but I don’t intend to deceive them, have no malice, and am trying as best as I can to impart truth… but my interpretation of what I saw is not correct.
These people in the administration may very well believe in what they are saying. The amount of self-deception and willful blindness to reality that people engage in is staggering; think of someone stuck in an abusive relationship.
Regardless of whether it is a ‘lie, is a lie, is a lie,’ or not, if the information is not true; if my friend and I march into the jungle to go climb that ‘boulder’, we are likely to die.
Truth is imminently paramount, there is no question about that, and there is no question that the government is lying to us. The question I have is; what is your definition of ‘a lie’? I will always seek to tell the complete truth, as I see and understand it, but I can’t guarantee that I see ‘all’. That’s God’s position, and why he commands us to call on his name and ask. He sees. He understands. He is the only one to guide.
I don’t think we disagree with each other. But I think you misunderstood my post. (And yes, I did read communist literature… I decided it was wrong, twisted, and evil. But now I know and understand what their plan and ploy is… from my point of view , …and I can identify it in my community. Just ‘cuz I read it, doesn’t mean I agree with it.)

http://twitter.com/1972patriot Kerri Hudson
Wasserman, as Eric Holder did recently in front of Congress, had a prepared response to these questions. You can tell by the way she repeated her talking points over and over when she was called out for straying from and not honestly answering the questions.

Anonymous
I would love to get a copy of the daily DNC talking points that are sent out to all the LSM and talking heads. You can see every time she speaks, it’s off the talking points sheet. I would hate to have a conversation with her at dinner. (Come to think of it, I’d hate to have dinner with her, so check that last statement).

Anonymous
http://www.progressivepatriots.com/house/Wasserman%20SchultzFL20.html
http://www.pdamerica.org/events/view/fl20-rep-debbie-wasserman-schultzbrown-bag-lunch-vigil
http://www.idiots4obama.com/
Obama Picks Blue Dog Debbie Wasserman Schultz
http://yborcitystogie.blogspot.com/search/label/Debbie%20Wasserman%20Schultz
http://www.issues2000.org/FL/Debbie_Wasserman_Schultz.htm
Anonymous
Funny thing is that most people have some good and bad traits. Say for instance, you might be a looker and not real bright or you might be not so good looking but extremely charismatic and nice. DWS is ugly as hell and meaner than a rattlesnake. What a sad human being!
Anonymous
In the words of Congressman West, “vile!”
MichaelLee1
Is this dumb broad married to Ed Shultz? If not,she should be.
Dan
was it drunk again…i mean the thing on her head…..
MichaelLee1
This bitch is a prime example why this country is so skrewed up. Everything she says & everything she does is pure USDA AAA bullshit.
Anonymous
Liberalism is a disease of the mind that makes Liberal’s/Democrat’s believe their own compulsive lies. Only an idiot would call himself or herself a liberal or a democrat in my opinion. They are on the wrong side of every issue and they don’t use facts or common sense to back up any of their idiotic claims. They are Anti-American, Anti-Freedom, Anti-Capitalism; in my mind traitors to our great nation. They hate everything that makes the United States of America great. For that they should be deported to a Socialist Nation of their choice, like China, Cuba, North Korea, or Venezuela, in my opinion. I am certain they would be much happier there than in a free country, right? Liberal / Democrat = Lying Thug every time.

http://twitter.com/PoeAllen Allen Poe
In my life, in Texas, there were only DEMs. There are many, still like that. A lot of education defeats what you are taught every Sunday. A year in a foreign country would have them dead, and they know it.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Joel-S-Miller/20711381 Joel S. Miller
I agree she is a class a “boob” as my grandma would call her (and not the kind found on ladies!) But why do we always see and hear her pushing the Obama agenda but who/where is the RNC chair?! Have you ever seen him on networks pushing conservative and Republican issues?! Never!!

Anonymous
I believe he, too, would be classified as that ‘Class A boob’. ‘Nuf said.

Anonymous
Unemployment was 7.6% when the draud took over and now debbie? just another idiot on the left.
Anonymous
Someone please introduce her to salads.
http://twitter.com/ranjay25 rAnJaY25
Not only is Dummy Doberman Schooz’s hair frizzy and scrambled, so is her brain or what’s left of it.
bobemakk
This woman is pathetically stupid. Wasserman should be impeached. As a Jewish person who is dedicated to the democratic party who always vote democrat, she must wake the hell up and realize that we are a Judeo Christian world, and Obama has thrown Israel under the bus many times. Young Jewish voters are finally waking up and changing their attitude and not supporting Obama. Wasserman should take lessons from them or be thrown out of Congress.
Anonymous
She really ought to do something about that hair. She’s never going to get a date looking like that.
Anonymous
Wasserman-Putz, Reid, Pelosi, Durbin et al; the best we can do.
My aching butt. Wake up, folks. Armed insurrection is just around the corner if we don’t take our country back.

DNC Chair: Unemployment has not gone up under Obama

get updates on twitter

trs awesome meter

subscribe to us

Places of Interest

Admin

archives