The Right Scoop
After reading the comments, I've felt obligated to express my opinion. I side on the side of Mesa and the young girl for the reasons stated below...
1. The school did not offer a "corresponding sport" which meant that Paige could not play softball which was her first choice. It was her right and under charter rules her priviledge to try out for the baseball team.
2. She beat out other boys for the starting second baseman's position, so her skills are not at question.
3. If the championship game were played on Our Lady of Sorrows' field she would have not played to honor their position on mixed sports. The championship game was played on a neutral field so she felt she had the right to play...and so did Mesa.
4. She had the support of her school and her team. This was NOT a decision made by a spoiled child trying to "make a statement" about gender biases in school sports
Final comments: If I understand the charter rules correctly this could only have been done if there were not a corresponding girls sport like baseball/softball, boys and girls soccer, boys and girls basketball, etc - not a sport like football. Which does in fact make it a gender discrimination issue
Ken brought up women in the military and combat specifically. On this I agree with Ken, but this is not the military we are talking about - it's academic sports. But if you wanted to use the miltary analogy I would liken this not to sending women into battle on foreign lands, but defending your country from foreign invasion. And in that case it would be appropriate for women to fight.
I yield the floor...
First of all no one here has condemned Mesa Prep for playing a girl on their team, Mesa was following the association rules, and no one is disputing that, likewise no one (those defending the Catholic school's stand) is stating that the young lady should not play or be barred. However, Our Lady of Sorrows (a private school run by a minority Sect of Catholicism) that practices what they believe, is being condemned, ridiculed and belittled for living by their beliefs. The Private school forfeited the game on the grounds of their beliefs, without complaint, blame, threats of suit or excuses. When these two teams met in the regular season, this young lady of her own decision benched herself. She showed a level of maturity and understanding far beyond her years and beyond that of many on this board, by her actions. She did not have to do it, she chose to. She could have taken the field at those games and she would have been right to do so, had she done so I would have supported her right to take that action. At the same time this private school is portrayed by many here as taking an action akin to a tantrum for standing on the principals of their beliefs (as is their right), many on the "right" have correctly pointed out the left's tactic of demeaning hyperbole and hypocrisy, only to turn those same tactics on a group that takes a stand on their beliefs regardless of the consequences of that stand, in this case forfeiting the championship game. I could have sworn that Conservatives were all about standing firmly for the Rights and Freedoms expressed in our Constitution, but apparently, I was mistaken in that belief.
As to my use of the military analogy, that was in response to the poster that raised the issue in their post.
Maybe I missed something Ken, but it was my impression from the video that the ones being condemned were the Mesa baseball team, since they were the "extreme" position in their Association. I am not in any way condemning Our Lady of Sorrows. What I am trying to convey is my support for the girls right to play baseball. If the association didn't want her to play they shouldn't have put the "corresponding sports" clause in their rules. BTW, if the association has the corresponding sports rule and Our Lady of Sorrows is in the Association then why are we praising the school for not honoring their own charter rules?! Again, maybe I'm missing something - I speak as a fool.
Both schools followed the rules, Mesa prep by allowing the young lady to play, Our Lady of Sorrows by forfeiting the game. The Catholic school while having an objection to playing a coed team, forfeited acknowledging and accepting the association's rule, recognizing the young lady had every right to play and not demanding she be removed. So the rules were respected by both teams. I suspect that the Catholic school has a corresponding girls team per the rules. The "bone of contention" (for myself and some others) was the bashing of the Catholic school and generally Catholics, for standing on their beliefs even though those beliefs possibly (Mesa had already beaten them twice) costing themselves the championship.
What is their side? They had the team of players they chose to have. They didn't have to make her sit down. Mesa suffered no harm and apparently observing their religious beliefs was important enough to Our Lady of Sorrows that they forfeited.
I have no beef with Our Lady of Sorrows, they can forfeit if they want. It was my opinion that Mesa did the right thing also. Maybe both schools can learn from this incident, I don't know.
Another "Diversity" / "Tolerance" story that proves to be a product of Liberalism gone bad. These people will never learn common sense. Why?
It's always about feelings and not pragmatism. Just let the girls play with the girls and vice versa for crying out loud!
great show for manhood! let the boys be men let the girls be ladies when you can find the difference.
Tea Party PAtriot
We already have to many girlyboys and boylygirls.
Just my two cents, but 'what if' the headline said that the Catholic School is a PRIVATE ALL BOYS academy and not just 'Catholic School'.
I don't know all the facts here and the line is going to be different for many of us as to which side I stand on. Many of the posts have a valid reason and many use it to go on to a different situation to prove their point. Good posts on both sides.
Is there some reason some of you jump to the "they're afraid to lose to a girl" routine vice just accepting that whether you agree with it or not their religious doctrine disapproves of boys & girls mixing in educational things and for some reason they feel sports qualifies as such? Is it hard for some of you just to accept that different religious denominations have different rules?
They're a private institution, and have a right to make that decision for themselves, but I think it's an absurd rule for non-contact sports.
I agree that there doesn't seem to be any discord between the two schools, which is a wonderful testament for both of them and their association of schools. I guess what bugs me is that the players were cheated out of the championship game, which -speaking as HS coach myself - is a shame.
It was my understanding that Our Lady of Sorrows was the one that did not honor the rules of the Association, I guess for religious purposes. The rules supported Mesa and the girl.
It was a general policy rule for all sports and physical education. If they start weighing each individual case, that would open Pandora's Box. You would then see every parent and student wanting their opinion heard. So far, there is no evidence of discord amongst the team that forfeited.
I get your point about non-contact vs. contact, but with all the sliding and tagging that happens, it isn't trouble-free.
The REAL POINT here is that
If the "BOYS" team lost to a team with a "GIRL" on it
they would be embarrassed - period -
This has NOTHING TO DO with CATHOLICS
"The team’s coach said that girl helped the team go undefeated so they weren’t about to play in a championship game without her."
I wouldn't take that quote too seriously. They were rallying around their player. All the players "helped" the team. It doesn't mean she was the reason they won. She may have been, but you can't glean that from that quote.
Joe, they already lost to Mesa Prep twice in the regular season, after asking the girl to sit out.
I didn't know that - BUT
Then the "boy's" team is not good and they don't want a third loss
The Catholic thing and other reasons - I believe are not relevant -
Be beaten by a girl in a third loss would be the icing on the cake
My suggestion is to reccruit a couple of really good players if it
means that much to them
A forfeit is counted a loss by the forfeiting team, a fact that I'm sure they are aware of. However, apparently they were "good enough" to make it to the state championships. Their beliefs are relevant in this decision, not that I personally agree with them, but they are the beliefs of this particular Order of Catholicism.
Right or wrong, the school stood for their principles instead of folding to political correctness. I think this is to be admired in today's society.
I know I'm getting in late on this, but after reading the comments, I must say there is a greater lesson to be learned from this.
Is it better to give up your principles for a chance to get a trophy? I think students from both teams can learn a life lesson on this one.
Finally, someone, this time a respected institution of our free society, stand up for itsa beliefs.
I don't judge what the Catholic School believes in but by the living GOD that made me, I will defend to the death their right to believe it.
I admire these Catholics with backbone!!!
No quarter to these one worlders, these "everybody is the samer's," these liberals and commie perverts who assault everything we believe in every moment and like cockroaches that they are, they only need a tiny hole to get in and contaminate a whole nation.
It is a trick commie's use and it's that one we consevatives have been fooled by for DECADES!
My values are my values and I will need yeild one inch to any man!
IT STOPS NOW!
Finally, someone, this time a respected institution of our free society, stand up for itsa beliefs.
I don't judge what the Catholic School believes in but by the living GOD that made me, I will defend to the death their right to believe it.
I admire these Catholics with backbone!!!
No quarter to these one worlders, these "everybody is the samer's," these liberals and commie perverts who assault everything we believe in every moment and like cockroaches that they are, they only need a tiny hole to get in and contaminate a whole nation.
It is a trick commie's use and it's that one we consevatives have been fooled by for DECADES!
My values are my values and I will need yeild one inch to any man!
IT STOPS NOW!
Yeah, the second best educated religious people in the Western world (after the Jewish people) can at times be stupid. Catholic for 54 years , and never heard of this silly policy before. It's baseball, not football, not boxing, not even wrestling (though I've taught some female wrestlers that could break your arm in 15 seconds and give you a pretty smile all the while.)
Well obviously Floyd you did not go to the correct Catholic School as some here did. Neither did I and quite frankly I am very glad I did not.
This deals with different Orders within the Catholic Church, and is endemic of the split in the Church over Vatican II. The particular order involved in this is the Society of Saint Pius X (as mentioned by 'kateorjane' above), an Order that has fractured itself a time or three. It's views and practices have been declared non-canonical by Pope Benedict XVI.
Pope John Paul II actually excommunicated several Bishops over this Order's founder ignoring Papal orders to the contrary and consecrating several Bishops. Most non-Catholics do not understand or bother to understand that the Catholic Church is as fractured with factions as the Protestant Church.
One other item in all this discussion on this that I would add, is that even the Public Schools I attended had segregated sports programs. The first time I encountered Coed sports in school was in my Junior year of High School, in an elective PE course in Fencing. All the elective courses for PE (open only to Juniors and Seniors) were Coed. The required basic PE classes were segregated.
From what I understand about the history of the SSPX, this wouldn't be the first or even fourth time that they've gone through this.
Thanks for the link. I know a lot of SSPX people. At the moment, it seems that some of them are ready for reunification with Rome. It sounds like they are on the verge of a schism within the SSPX. How is that for irony?
Ken, do you know for a fact that this is a SSPX school? If so, that would explain why the boys that had to forfeit don't seem to be complaining. I think a lot of people here think that the school administrators overreached, but I don't see any evidence that the parents or students disagreed.
btw, I also went to both Catholic and public schools. Not only did we have gym class every day (which schools don't do now), but in my case it was always segregated.
OK so I've been Catholic for 54 years, Catholic grade school high school etc. and this idea, attitude, policy is totally new to me.
That's a pretty low life comment if I don't say so myself..
John liked it, Imagine that, ... humm..
Apparently educational separation of the sexes is a key tenet of the Society of St. Pius X, a separatist branch of the Catholic Church of which Our Lady of Sorrows is a part. It appears their action is in line with their doctrine and something they are entitled to do under the guise of freedom of religion. No one forced any of the students to attend that school so they shouldn't be suprised when the rules are enforced.
And i'm guessing you went to public school? http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/02/08/educating-children-catholic-schools-doing/
Bigotry how? Not playing because there's a girl on the other team? What is this? Kindergarten?
Blanket, whole cloth, uninformed condemnation of Catholics, for nothing more than a particular Order of Catholics, who decided to make a stand on their beliefs, for starters. This school taking a stand on their beliefs, is no different at all from you taking a stand for your own, is it? You then follow up your first post (a fine example of Kindergarten mind set in and of it self) denigrating their stand for their beliefs and practices as childish. Do I need to go on?
Funny you should mention that word in this thread. and don't jump to conclusions Ken because I am not in the least insinuating that of you as I have read many of your post and do not think that about you in the least.
big·ot·ry
noun,
1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
Like I mentioned earlier , life is a two way street and No one, no matter how highly they hold them self in their own eye, is always in the right or in possession of the truth all the time.
Why is it called a boys team if girls play on it? The should make it a girls team with boys who play on it, LOL or does it matter? I bet it does to all the boys on the team.
Why do they have boys and girl teams ? Because there is a distinction , thats why.
Its the schools call not to play the team , and it seems the girl was ok with it.
My youngest son played basketball and soccer at a small Catholic school. He had female teammates in both because they barely had enough boys to fill a starting team. The bball team wasn't very good, but it wasn't because of the girls. The soccer team was one of the best in the region and both female members were solid contributors.
The girl was on the team because there wasn't a girl's softball team. Rules state she can play on the boy's team only in that circumstance.
My point was , they themselves divide them by sex.
So is it really a "boys" team?
bottom line its the schools call.
I dont have a problem with it but thats how they run their, catholic school all boys baseball team.
The other team is not really an all boys team. I understand why they dont have an all boys team, because they want to let a (wonderful) young lady play on their team. But its no longer an all boys team.
thats how I see it anyway.
Ugh. I can see why they do it and I can see why people don't like it. No matter what they do some kids will be left out or others will be angered. You are right that it's no longer a boys team.
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