Glenn Beck to Jim Wallis: The hammer is coming

Yes…the HAMMER. I can't wait to see the hammer SMITE THEE, Jim. That should be fun to watch and/or listen to.

I haven't even heard of this guy… Should be entertaining…

I was a huge Glenn Beck fan but the more I read about the Mormons and Joseph Smiths communist ways I just can't follow him anymore. I can't take him seriously. Glenn's religious leader (not unlike Jeremiah Wright) is ludicrous. Talk about hammering. I'm sorry because I had thought GB a leader, but that's not to happen.

What a lovely concern troll you are! Casting aspersions on Glenn's sincerity!

Why does Glenn hate Jesus? Why was Joseph Smith a communist? (He was a “communist” in the same way that St. Paul was.)

Did you know that when you start with “I was a huge Glenn Beck fan but…” you totally tip your hand? It's so CUTE though! Keep it up!

oooh look the big bad mormon is coming! watch out!

swchance…who are you really? bc someone who takes that kind of position doesn't reflect the kind of principles we respect.

are you familiar with Haun's Mill and the infamous Extermination Order? i might be so bold to say you are, considering you have some type of problem with Mormons.

We have no desire to entertain such hatred. And I highly doubt you were ever a fan, that's just a front for the beginning of your diatribe in some type of screwy effort to be taken seriously.

Regardless of his other political beliefs, Jim Wallis was right to challenge Glenn Beck on this. Social justice is a fundamental element of Christianity.

One of Jesus' primary goals in his ministry was to show that the Law was a gift, not a burden – that societies and laws exist and should function to benefit the people, and not simply exist for their own sake. Social justice is an extension of this, among other things; the Christian burden is not simply to help the individual poor, but to build the Kingdom of God by fighting the causes of poverty. Christians are called to work for the benefit of the marginalized, and to ignore the institutional causes of that marginalization is naive at best.

What Glenn Beck really intends to rail against is entitlement programs and forcible redistribution of wealth – but those aren't necessary components of social justice. “Social justice” in its purest form is really just the preservation of the American Dream – that a man born into poverty can work his way into the middle and upper classes. It also encapsulates the preservation of individual rights and freedoms – which of course plays into the Constitution's Bill of Rights, the system of checks and balances, and the representative form of government.

If Glenn Beck is so worried that we're “losing our country,” he should be working toward social justice himself. It's a concept that's deeply rooted in America's foundations and traditions, and one that's eroding with every Wall Street bonus and every blue-collar layoff.

Yes, Mormons are weird. Out side of that, you're an idiot troll.

But thanks for trying to shovel.

So, there was this guy who needed some migrant workers to work his field early in the morning. He said I will pay you $80 for the day to work my field. They agreed. At lunch time, another group of workers showed up and asked for work. He said I will pay you $80 to work my field. Late afternoon with only two hours of work time left another bunch of workers showed up, and the man said I will pay you $80 to work my field. When pay time came, the men who came early said WTF, we worked all day and you are paying us the same as these that came at lunch, and these that worked only two hours. We want to talk with the ACLU, the SEIU, where are those community organizers, this isn't right.

So Jesus said sometimes the first shall be last and the last shall be first and besides it is my field and my money, I will do with them what I want.

If that is the example that comes straight from the bible (modernized) I don't think Jim Wallis and Jesus would agree on what social justice is.

The parable you speak of: Also of note, missing from the narrative is those whom didn't work in the field. It is inferred here that God believes everyone knows(common knowledge) when you don't work for someone you don't even need to bother asking that someone for pay which you never worked for a second in the first place.? This country, this once great nation is under the wrath of abandonment, sucks, but the proverbial handwriting, to modernize it as you did, the tagging is on the wall. I am amazed at the lunacy that we see, never expected this growing up, never expected to care, never have I seen the depravity of man so clearly, never did I expect our nation divided over the sickle and hammer ideals vs freedom. It's like the cold war I grew up through had no meaning and it must have been all a show, wasn't it the ideology of the marxist state we were fighting, or was it really just about guy with an unusual birthmark we disliked?

The logic behind this comment is circular, at best, or just plain vague. You seem to say that promoting “Social Justice” is really just another way of vindicating the promise of “equal opportunity.” But then you say that Beck “should be working toward social justice himself.”

Isn't Beck trying to promote equal opportunity as understood by the Founders? Or are you wedded to the notion of equal opportunity as a sort of “equality of results” that guides leftist/progressive thinking?

What exactly is circular about my comment? There's no logical loop. I'm not even employing direct logical reasoning, I'm just correcting a definition and clarifying the debate. Beck is attacking a fundamental tenet of Christian theology when he really means to attack a specific set of policies, and it was right for someone to call him out on that. I'm not making any argument about whether Beck is doing enough for equal opportunity.

OH MY GOSH!! My good friend and I have been fighting against this heretical form of “religion” in our home town now for close to four years!! There is a definite obvious connection between the liberal left, many “Christian” colleges,some of America's most well known “evangelicals” and the one world government. It is time, long past time, that God fearing,believers, (yes, fundamentalist) wake up and smell the dog poop cause they're being fed this crap (Progressive theology, aka. Emergent) from some of their pulpits and classrooms, in the form of apostate teachings, that look like Betty Crocker Brownies but are laced with poop!! This is a huge battle, spiritual in nature and not something to be engaged in for the faint of heart! Fighting this battle, on the home front is VERY costly. You go Glenn!!

“I didn't make any claims about whether Wallis is actually right.”

ummm problem here!

“I haven't advocated that, and from what I've read of his writings it's not an inherent goal of Jim Wallis' either. (It's of course arguable whether it happens in practice, but I didn't post to defend Rev. Wallis' views, ****I posted to say he's right about this particular one.*****)”

oops i replied to the wrong person, sorry

The key is to NOT FOLLOW AT ALL…whether it be Glenn Beck OR Alex Jones.

Alex Jones' theories ALSO have loopholes.

If George Bush was part of the NWO, then WHY did he NOT sign the Kyoto Treaty?

Also…how long have you listened to Jones' rantings? I have since '97. He's been pretty consistent with his “Two sides of the same coin” arguments since then, but has lead people astray MANY times.

You should look into his Y2K message of “Russia is going to nuke us.” Yeah. MOST of what Jones says is TRUE, but SOME of it is NOT.

I'm NOT saying DON'T listen to him. The key is to LISTEN TO ALL of the information. There is NO “GOOD” info or “BAD” info. Information is only that. It's HOW IT'S PROCESSED that matters in the end.

It's important to listen to people like Beck AND Jones because they'll BOTH tell you the SAME THING….DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH and FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF.

I predict that this is a lot of braggadocio, and will lead to yet another anti-climax. Jim Wallis is an open book. You might not agree with him, but his honest critics consider him a good person, who practices what he preaches.

Full quotes, with context included:

Beck: Isn’t it weird that as we’ve made so much “progress,” that society has gotten worse? Isn’t that strange? See the idea behind progressives… And this is why, and I… I'm begging you, your right to religion and freedom to exercise religion and read all of the passages of the Bible as you want to read them and as your church wants to preach them . . . are going to come under the ropes in the next year. If it lasts that long it will be the next year. I beg you, look for the words 'social justice' or 'economic justice' on your church Web site. If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. Now, am I advising people to leave their church? Yes! If I’m going to Jeremiah Wright’s church, yes! Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. If you have a priest that is pushing social justice, go find another parish. Go alert your bishop and tell him, “Excuse me, are you down with this whole social justice thing?” I don’t care what the church is, if it’s my church… I’m alerting the church authorities – “Excuse me, what’s this social justice thing?” And they say “Yeah we’re all into that social justice thing,” I am in the wrong place.

Other guy: It’s possible they need to be illuminated to the hidden meaning behind some of these terms. I think a lot of people adopt these “green” sort of policies without realizing what they are.

Beck: That’s a very good point – there’s a very good chance that people don’t know what it is. That’s why you need to educate yourself.

There's no distinction made between “good” social justice and “bad” social justice in what Beck said. He simply told his listeners to find out if social justice is part of what their church teaches, and if so, to leave that church because it's a “code word,” presumably for Communism or Socialism or Nazism or whatever other “ism” sounds the worst to the listener. Moreover, the person he's talking to implies that “social justice is some new trendy concept that churches are adding to their sermons, when really it's been a fundamental concept since Jesus' ministry, and has been officially named and recognized as far back as the Jesuits in the 1800's.

Also, you're re-framing the debate to suit your own arguments. You say that you don't care to debate about what the duty of a Christian is, and that we aren't distinguishing what it means to be a Christian, but that's exactly what I was doing in my original post; I was saying that Beck's idea of what “social justice” means is not the correct one, and by attacking the basic concept he is essentially attacking the fundamentals of Christianity. You say that defending Wallis' views is what I'm doing, but I haven't said a word about his views other than that social justice goes far beyond entitlement programs and welfare – which is fact.

I don't care what you think about Wallis' views or about the policies he advocates. I didn't post to debate those. I would have supported anyone that spoke out against Beck for trashing a fundamental Christian obligation, up to and including Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell (if he was still alive, of course).

GLENN: Let me give you the organ of the Obama administration, the New York Times by Laurie Goodstein. She says, “Last week the conservative broadcaster Glenn Beck called on Christians to leave their churches if they hear preaching about social or economic justice, saying they are code words for communism and Naziism.” Well, yeah, the communists and the Nazis, and I presented that evidence last night on the TV show. It's pretty hard when I take their own words and play it coming out of their own mouth and then show their own magazines, their own newspapers using those, that language for this exact purpose, for Naziism and communism, progressivism in America. But why get down to the facts.

“This week the remarks prompted outrage from several Christian bloggers.” Now, let me ask you a question. The New York Times says they're above all, they the news that's fit to print. They found this to be a, how many paragraph? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve paragraph story from several, quote, Christian bloggers. Oh.

PAT: Unnamed?

GLENN: No, no, they've named one.

PAT: Oh, they have named them?

GLENN: Yes. The Reverend Jim Wallis.

PAT: Oh, that Christian blogger. And by the way, did they mention that he's an advisor, a spiritual advisor to the president of the United States, Barack Obama?

GLENN: No, they haven't mentioned that.

PAT: They haven't mentioned that?

GLENN: No, they don't mention that here.

PAT: He's a disinterested party? He's just a Christian.

STU: Random Christian typist, okay.

GLENN: Who leads the liberal Christian antipoverty group.

PAT: Oh, is that what it is?

GLENN: It's a Christian antipoverty group.

PAT: Oh, okay.

STU: At least they said liberal. That's more than they normally do.

GLENN: Right. He called on Christians to leave Glenn Beck. That sounds like a boycott. I wonder if one will follow.

STU: Wait, wait. An advisor to the president being tied to a boycott? That doesn't sound possible.

GLENN: Wait, wait, wait, wait.

STU: It doesn't sound possible.

GLENN: Wait. One who studied Marxism?

STU: No, it doesn't seem. I won't listen to it.

GLENN: Okay. So “what he has said attacks the very heart of Christian faith. Christians should no longer watch his show,” Mr. Wallis wrote on his blog. His name of his blog? God's Politics.

GLENN: Your church is there and that's why I said I don't care what church you go to. I don't care. As long as that church is telling you and helping you be a better person, be more honorable, be more honest, be more giving. But once that church starts to preach social and economic justice, especially through the structure of a giant government, well, now that's something totally different. Now, now you are talking about a church that is getting involved in government itself. We don't do that. We don't do that.

STU: Yeah. I mean, and the easiest way to understand what you were talking about is if you were talking about the poor, your own church obviously, they pointed out there that they do care about caring for the poor. So were you advising people to leave your own church? Were you advising your other parishioners to walk out of your church because you can't take it? Did you leave your church this week, Glenn?

GLENN: No, I didn't.

STU: Did you leave it?

GLENN: No, I didn't.

STU: Why not? Clearly the New York Times says you were calling for yourself to leave your own church.

GLENN: Because everyone, everyone can follow the dictates spirit and worship any way that they want. The idea is separation of church and state when it comes to, it is not a political arm. The your churches are not political arms. Now, that doesn't mean you don't stand up for what you believe in, especially if it is an attack on what you believe. You stand up for what you believe. If you think that you can get in I know we have to wrap it up. If you think you can get into bed with these socialist, Marxist, social justice and economic justice people and retain your right to worship in the way the spirit dictates to you, you're out of your mind. Because they'll be your friend today but they are going to turn on you and rip your heart of your church out.

BAKER: And it's not peripheral stuff. This is when I heard you talking to the mother of the girl at Wheaton College last week, Wheaton College was my college and these debates were big debates for us back when we were at school in the Eighties. And when she was talking about kind of that feeling of the loss of her daughter, what happened to this bright girl that went off and now has kind of bought into this. That's what I used to think when I was there and I would see the people rallying and all this kind of stuff. How are you people buying this crap? You know, and so here when I and I sent that phrase bearing false witness to you because that's what I tried to press on outside of all these issues to say there may be people that are less religious, that don't follow the debates about social justice and all of that, that might not know what Glenn Beck was talking about. But if there's anybody in America who really does know exactly what Glenn Beck is talking about, it would be Jim Wallis. He knows that for a century there's been debates in Christianity about social gospels and personal gospels and his issues have been very divisive within the church. And so for him to come out and say this is what Glenn Beck is speaking against, caring for your neighbor and loving your neighbor as yourself, absolute bull. And I said

PAT: And he knows it.

BAKER: But he wouldn't come to. I asked him three times. I said, you know that's not what he's talking about because and the problem was he said, yes, well, I yes, back I grew up in the Plymouth brethren and these were great debates. I was like, exactly. You know that they're great debates and you know that's what he was talking about. So why are you bearing false witness?

PAT: What did he say?

GLENN: What did he say?

BAKER: He just says, I have no idea what he's talking about and he needs to he's offended people and he needs to apologize.

GLENN: Yeah. Jim, that's not going to happen. Gosh darn it.

BAKER: He will be upset about that.

GLENN: I know he will, and I hate when Marxists get upset because yeah.

PAT: Now, you would have to be preaching redistribution of wealth to be called a Marxist.

GLENN: No, he wouldn't no, he wouldn't preach that, would he, Pat? Would he preach that?

PAT: I'm sure not. I'm sure he's he's been asked about it. I'm sure he's absolutely not!

VOICE: Are you then calling for the redistribution of wealth in society?

***WALLIS: Absolutely, without any hesitation. That's what the gospel is all about.*** (through the goooovernment)

GLENN: Oh. Oh, I didn't

PAT: Wait. Hold it.

GLENN: No, no. But I do remember in the gospel that I read Jesus saying you only had one might? That guy over there, he's got too many mites! Get his mites and we can give it to you! Do you remember that scene? No, I don't, either. I don't, either. Isn't that weird? But that's absolutely what

PAT: Wow.

GLENN: That's absolutely what he believes the gospel is about. You know better than that. If you want to give your wealth to someone, that's what you do. Jon Huntsman is more what the gospel is about. He's made billions of dollars. He's going to die broke because he chooses to give it away.

BAKER: ***But Jim Wallis says that voluntary charity is not enough.***

GLENN: You don't happen to have that audio?

PAT: We do.

-case in point…his version of social justice includes “charity” by force…by means of the government.

social justice is another term that has been perverted by the likes of people such as wallis.

i know this because i listen to beck and do the research…AND i go see for myself what people like wallis has said, instead of skewing words and instructing people to “not listen to beck” like the saintly mr. wallis has done. cut and paste to make it appear someone is saying something that he actually is not saying (because i don't know, they're onto you and exposing people like wallis and van jones one by one) is tantamount to lying, in my opinion.

Number 9 Mr. Wallis, number 9: Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness

This is albert mohler, btw:
“My concern is very different. As an evangelical Christian, my concern is the primacy of the Gospel of Christ — the Gospel that reveals the power of God in the salvation of sinners through the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. The church's main message must be that Gospel. The New Testament is stunningly silent on any plan for governmental or social action. The apostles launched no social reform movement. Instead, they preached the Gospel of Christ and planted Gospel churches. Our task is to follow Christ's command and the example of the apostles.

There is more to that story, however. The church is not to adopt a social reform platform as its message, but the faithful church, wherever it is found, is itself a social reform movement precisely because it is populated by redeemed sinners who are called to faithfulness in following Christ. The Gospel is not a message of social salvation, but it does have social implications.

Faithful Christians can debate the proper and most effective means of organizing the political structure and the economic markets. Bringing all these things into submission to Christ is no easy task, and the Gospel must not be tied to any political system, regime, or platform. Justice is our concern because it is God's concern, but it is no easy task to know how best to seek justice in this fallen world.”

“Until then, the church must preach the Gospel, and Christians must live out its implications. We must resist and reject every false gospel and tell sinners of salvation in Christ. And, knowing that God's judgment is coming, we must strive to be on the right side of justice.”

This calls into question your statements about social justice and what it says a Christian must do. It says nothing about your previous comments:

“It means ensuring equal protection under the law. It means finding a fair way to share the burden of taxation. It means ensuring that the inner cities and the rural areas have the same access to opportunity and education as the suburbs – that where you're born doesn't determine how successful you are. It means empowering the working classes to receive fair wages and medical care, and giving them a voice in our government that their wealth cannot provide.”

That's *political* and is *not* what “Until then, the church must preach the Gospel, and Christians must live out its implications. We must resist and reject every false gospel and tell sinners of salvation in Christ. And, knowing that God's judgment is coming, we must strive to be on the right side of justice.” means.

hmm perhaps you see the problem now with applying certain statements to certain intentions, and how it results in misinterpretation?

Isn't it interesting that Fox should get all of therightscoops' archives deleted. Lets hope in the future other people have been able to record Glenn Beck's show and keep the content safe from the Murdoch lawyers.

Wow. Beck, you're ignorant.

Please accept this challenge…read the entire new testament and do so with the intent to understand Jesus' view of the poor, justice, oppression and possessions. Like it or not, Jesus and the Apostle Paul taught redistribution of wealth, which happens to simply be good stewardship of what God has gifted to those who have the resources.

Glenn Beck and all of his followers are entitled to their opinions regarding what they choose to define as social justice, just don't call it Christian!! It simply is not.

” a resource for nonprofits and community organizations, both secular and faith based, looking for ways to make a bigger impact in their communities, learn their obligations under the law, cut through red tape, and make the most of what the federal government has to offer.”

dubb: “I haven't advocated that, and from what I've read of his writings it's not an inherent goal of Jim Wallis' either. “

everything he says conveys his belief that government has a direct role in what his view of the Gospel entails. -For example, in parallel with his magazine’s stridently antiwar position during the Seventies, Wallis championed the cause of communism. – his blog “God's Politics” portrays his stance regarding his view of the link between the Gospel and government.

More than a mere religious leader, Wallis, a registered Democrat, is also an adroit political operative

“Wallis's affinity for Marxism and socialism is evident in many things he himself has said. For example, in 2005 Wallis stated that private charity to help the poor was insufficient, and *that true social justice could be achieved only by using the power of a powerful central government to redistribute wealth*: “We have to be very clear about this. Voluntary, faith-based initiatives with no resources, no resources to make any serious difference in poverty reduction, is not adequate. That's a charity that falls far short of Biblical justice.”

how much more of his own words would a person need to see that his views inexplicably state that government has a direct role in carrying out what *he believes* the Gospel demands?

btw, again, he said to go speak to your church leader about it, not simply run screaming your head off if you hear “social justice”. and if the leader does not to your satisfaction refute the jim wallis version of social justice, then to re-think your choice of a church. like they say “context matters”.

The disturbing point is that of the 5 pastors listed, Jim Wallis is the only one credited with influencing Obama on policy issues.
Why might this be a cause of concern? The New York Times reports:

The pastor in the circle who has known Mr. Obama the longest is Mr. Wallis, president and chief executive of Sojourners, a liberal magazine and movement based in Washington. In contrast to the other four, his contact with the president has been focused more on policy than prayer.

Wallis is a member of the Obama ‘White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives’

” a resource for nonprofits and community organizations, both secular and faith based, looking for ways to make a bigger impact in their communities, learn their obligations under the law, cut through red tape, and make the most of what the federal government has to offer.”

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Obam…

Beck has nothing, and his “hammer” has fallen silent. He has avoided responding to Wallis; many invitations to meet at a neutral site of their mutual agreement to discuss Beck’s accusations and claims that Social Justice is somehow both Communist and Nazi at the same time…which is a neat trick. I’d like to see Beck and Wallis debate in a setting where Beck doesn’t have a cheering section to give him a spine.