Read bin Laden's 'Letter to America'. OBL lists numersous conditions that must be met and if the U.S. fails to meet them then the fight will continue. Bin Laden writes, "The first thing we are calling you to is Islam". Enough said!!!
I'll probably get hammered for this, but....what did he say that is wrong? But it's far more complex than Ron Paul or most people believe. It's a mix of so many things that has gotten us to where we are today. Why must we ignore reality? Why do we search for simple answers to complex matters? Most importantly....what relevance does it have TODAY? The past is behind us. Does any of this provide us with insight into how to more effectively defeat these mofos? I doubt it. Above all else, I don't really care *WHY* they want to kill us. I only care that they do! Thus, we need to kill as many of them ASAP. I believe we've been far too soft in fighting this war. The weaker we are today, the more Western lives it'll cost us in the future. Our society has become so weak, no stomach for war - and our enemy knows it.
Liberalism (multiculti/diversity, political correctness, etc) is a huge part of the problem. There are always "reasons" why people want to kill us. I don't care about "the why"... UNLESS it helps us defeat our enemy. For example, I think we should be targeting the radical religious and political leaders who promote Sharia. We have mosques in the West that are run by men who want to kill us and our way of life! And we ALLOW this!!! That is suicide.
I want to know, what is so hard to believe? What entity has a budget deficit of $1.5 trillion, has $15 trillion debt, has crooked crony-capitalists as policy makers, can legally perform insider trading for personal profit, spends $ billions on the most ridiculous projects, can't secure the border, can't pass a responsible budget and lies to their constituents every time their lips move? Oh yeah, the entity called the United States Government. And what is so hard to believe that this same cadre of liars and crooks has an honest foreign policy? It makes sense to me that we are getting royally cheated and they work for us, what will they do to people they don't have to answer to? Wake up and send a candidate to the Whitehouse that is NOT part of the establishment.
Ron Paul is/was wildly wrong in his backstory on Bin Laden in this speech. It just goes to show how little of his worldview is firmly rooted in fact.
"Osama bin Laden, a wealthy man, left Saudi Arabia in 1979 to join American-sponsored so-called freedom fighters in Afghanistan."
Falsehood. There were two different groups of mujaheddin in Afghanistan fighting the Soviets. One was primarily foreign, Arab fighters funded by Bin Laden, and the other were native Afghanis backed by the US. The groups were quite distinct from one another, as Bin Laden already hated the US by this point and would kill an American on sight. Paul blurs the lines and pretends that Bin Laden joined some singular, great big pool of fighters that was indiscriminately accepted and supported by the US government.
"He received financial assistance, weapons and training from our CIA, just as his allies in Kosovo continue to receive the same from us today. …"
There is no proof that Bin Laden ever received, and quite a bit of evidence that he never would have accepted, aid from the US government. If you accept Bin Laden's words at face value, as Paul routinely claims he does, you would accept his claims that he never wanted and never did have anything to do with the US during this period.
"It is during this time that bin Laden learned to practice terror – tragically, with money from the US taxpayers."
Again, total falsehood - and beyond the point about whether or not he would have even accepted it, Bin Laden may not have even needed US taxpayer money. His entire role was as a fund-raiser (and, perhaps through purchase, a spiritual leader), not an actual fighter, as far as anyone has ever been able to tell.
"But it wasn’t until 1991, during what we refer to as the Persian Gulf War, that he turned fully against the United States. It was this war, said to protect our oil, that brought out the worst in him. …"
Total falsehood, Bin Laden clearly hated the US long before this, probably back to the mid 70s.
anonoped, so the US is at fault for 9/11? That is what Ron Paul claims. Obama bows to muslims, is that what Ron Paul/the oddball will do next? Thanks for your service, but please get real.
I love how questioning Americas foreign policy makes you unamerican, but its ok to bitch about healthcare. What facts did Ron Paul get wrong, I cant find any.
Ron Paul needs to better explain that constant war isn't going to prevent a lone mad man from infiltrating our country to blow his underwear up on a plane, and belief that all of the sudden wave of terrorist are going to get together to “invade us” if we are not engaged in some quagmire has no backing in reality. Our wars and involment angers more PEOPLE. When we shot down a Iranian airliner containing 300 civilians how do you think that made them feel? Americans need to stop thinking of of our “Enemies” as a collective group. They may have a fucked up culture but they still have emotions and other human qualities, like revenge and hate. For 60 years we have done almost everything possible (but open war) to destroy Iran. What about when we overthrew Irans democratically elected government in 1953 because they didnt like Britain ripping them off for oil? How about when we gave Chemical Weapons, guns, equipment and intel to Iraqs when IRAQ invaded Iran. How about when we shot down a Civilian airliner flying over Iranian airspace killing 300 civilians and 66 children. How about Operation Praying Mantis? Or destroying their economy though sanctions? Want me to go on? If you were an Iranian citizen you would hate US as well. Our foreign policy has helped bring this on ourselves. If any country EVER invaded America I would be more then willing to give my life to protect my country so don’t call me an America hater, I just see our “enemies” as people capable real emotions, such as the desire for revenge and hate.
Everything I mentioned is true, I can source it all if you want. After all the crap we have done to Iran, do you expect them to like us? We LOVE talking about Assassinations of Iranian scientists, how quickly we can destroy their economy, how soon we want to bomb them and how we should INVADE them to get back our spy drone we were flying over their sovereign land and it is met with applause. Should they not take this seriously? If I was and Iranian I would insist that my country get a nuke to keep America at bay. (Even Israelis admit this)
The Establishment GOP are seriously over estimating the popularity of war. The Iraq deception is still fresh in everyone's mind and even the majority of REPUBLICANS don't even favor military action against Iran. The majority is waking up to the fact that being against actions the cause more unneeded hate towards America and pointing out the major flaws in our foreign policy is no more anti American then being against Obama-care. Ron Paul is going to get a lot more followers for being pro-peace then he would warmongering. He has more support from the military then all the other candidates and Obama put together, infact when other candidates and Obama are raking in millions of donations from big banks and special interests, Ron Pauls top source of donations comes from the US military and the American Public,
Christ said you must forgive everybody. That does not mean you cannot shoot them, to protect our people. A dead enemy is easy to forgive. Forgiving an enemy, as he shoots you, is foolish. Baring your chest to a gun, is not Christlike. Those who say our enemy is right deserves his death.
Factually, he has many things correct. Yet, he consistently overlooks the most important element in all of this - the religious fanaticism behind the actions. We are not dealing with people who are like us. We must be the big bully on the block at all times, kicking butts and cracking heads to ensure that Islamic fundamentalism does not take root in every corner, which is precisely what it is doing now. There is no excuse for killing almost 3000 innocent civilians in one morning in September. Those are not the actions of some middle eastern people upset over oil or American dominance. Those are the actions of religious freaks, hell bent on destroying anything not in line with their views. Mr. Paul never seems to get this. He can talk all around the subject with facts and figures, but he is completely blind to the biggest factor of all. Good grief.
Sorry to upset you, but doing things in secret is not underhanded. If we had advertized the a bomb, the carrying ship would have been sunk days ealier. Sorry, you are dead wrong, even GW had to do somethings in secret, until after the fact. I blame the American people totally for what the government did, they did what the people told them to do. therefore everything you blame the government for, is blaming youself. Welcome to the USA, of the people. If you don't like it, leave, or work for change. Blame game is over.
Diplomacy is the art of smiling, while saying back off. We do not install anything, we deal with what is there, any way we can.
Wake up! The Earth is in open warfare. Take that money you are saving, and go somewhere, far away. See the Muslims slaughtering the non Muslims, all colors. Talk about self delusions, you are a fine example.
How many Caucasions have the Muslims killed in 5000 years. Just 2000 years ago they murdered, all Jewish chidren under 2, to kill Christ. They joined Hitler, what does it take you to understand? Go join them, I understand they like your type.
A reason is not justification. Justification requires a error. Just because they believe they are right does not make them right.
Bin Laden, if you admit truth, became terrorist because the USA ruined his view of Mecca, from his house, at 17. Quit trying to slew history to your bias.
It's the same old jazz, mama. If American oil companies had never drilled the oil wells, thinking to have them forever, they would have no oil. It happens again and again. Greed of a few, kills many. If they had been stopped by the USA government, much of this would not have happened. If you really think they did it without congressional approval, your are naive. If you think congress did not get any of that money, you are a fool. If you think Osama Ben Laden was not a known terrorist in 1970, you are ignorant. Just read OBL's teen years. His backers in congress, will try to rewrite even 9/11. They are already blaming Bush. I and my family have fought these ---- for 150 years. It is YOUR county. Fight or perish.
I am a lifetme commited Con servative, 8 year vetern of the Army and the first Gulf War, a 17 year vetern of Law Enforcement and a member of the NRA, Oath Keepers, and 101st Airborne Association and I support Ron Paul 100%. He is right on so many issues, and you neo cons who think he is so bad on Foriegn Policy then why is everything he says articulated my intelligence from the CIA/NSA and garners the most support from our military.
You served all those years, and apparently dedicated your life to it, and yet you call us neocons? You see, anytime someone posts a lifetime worth of military or law enforcement experience, and then starts insulting me by calling me a neocon, I stop listening. First of all, I doubt very much you even understand what the term truly means. If you want people to take you seriously, stop insulting them. Particularly if you have spent a life doing exactly what you are now insulting.
Stop spamming everyone with the RuPaul garbage. You're wrong, do some research on Islam and it's long, long, violent history. It started in the 7th century, in blood, wiping out whole Jewish tribes (Banu Qurayza), innocent peasants and cities who would not accept his word.
Islam is a evil religion I will admit, but im pretty sure you dont see Indonesia, Turkey, Mauritania or Pakistan attacking us, hell Pakistan has a nuke and they havnt attacked us or their mortal enemies: India. So your point is moot! Use diplomacy and quit nation building and begin trading with them and sooner then later their whako fundies will be defeated from within.
Allen is correct. All of those have aided and abetted terrorism, which is a proxy war. Furthermore, the reason those nations, or any nations don't attack us outright, is because they're too weak. See the First Gulf War. We can steamroll any of those nations in a day or two. It's easier for them to sit back and let the terrorists do the work.
Zed, truly naive. Read daily biased news, and even they report all 3 have aided and abetted. Can't you see, even after 3 years of Ob, talking is just wasted on these people. I suggest you read of Teddy Roosevelt's foreign policy.
It's simply a fact that Muslims that actually obey the word of Allah and the Qur'an *will* hate America and anyone who is free and not Muslim.
It was declared, but because of political correct, Bush derangement syndrom suffering majority- they decided to make the decisions that those on the ground should have made, and started tying the hands of our troops. Not to mention charging our troops with criminal offences for doing the job they should have been doing.
We don't know that that many Iraqis would still be alive, after all, if it weren't for the war, Saddam would still be in power with his evil sons who seemed to get such enjoyment out of murdering and maiming their own people. Not to mention Kurds.
He is more like a communist politician than a true American politician. Shame on @RNC for allowing this loony man on the stage to debate with others.
Kris, RARELY is word you should learn. Just put it between not, and wrong. You are the country. If you detest the USA, leave it. We are what we vote for. If you voted for JFK, you loved the Viet Nam war, he started it for real. The majority wins, if you disagree so much, leave. Canada is full of people like you. The natives don't like them, either.
And you are done here, that's not censorship it is just the reward for achieving the award for the most logical fallacies in one thread.
Not at all. Is your thinking really this black and white? I say security starts at home, not abroad. That does not mean there can be zero intervention; If Iran were to threaten us with a bomb, then I would take that seriously.
Hypothetically speaking if someone tries to stop us from doing something that affects the safety of the American citizen base, we point a couple of rocket launchers their way and let the weapons speak for themselves. We're a superpower, and we should use that status for us and our allies.
So you are saying if someone tried to stop us from doing anything, we should threaten them? --You realize our threatening them would only cause more instability, don't you?
Wait a minute, we always try to paint the Iranians of doing the exact same thing you are suggesting we do. So it's okay when we do it, but not okay if Iran does it? Gotcha!
You obviously have not read where I said we should take an actual threat seriously if it were made. So no, I am not saying "lie down and die."
Well great. If you point nukes at another nation, do not whine if they point right back. If they get paranoid and fire, it would be your threat that made them paranoid.--And lets be honest: If any other nation pointed nukes in our direction, we would be calling for a declaration of war; any other nation would be with in it's right if we were to do that.....no matter how convinced we are that we are the good guys.
Iran may be a "sovereign" nation, but the whole rules on sovereignty are murky.
I guess they are only "murky" if we don't trust the other nation. Those rules do not apply to us, I guess. We have nukes galore..but we cannot allow countries we don't like to have them, no sir.
If a nation commits a genocide, do the leaders lose their right as sovereign leaders? Should we put our interests behind the garbage rules of "international law?"
Like him or not, Ahmadinejad as of yet is not guilty of genocide. He's been accused of "inciting" it, but even if that were true, there has been no result from it.
But as for his statements about Israel, I think you should watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onNzrNEFs1E&context=C3db96f6ADOEgsToPDskIQH84NUjKcyk3oj2JxEFcN
And, we are not even innocent of committing genocide ourselves.
Yes it is "peace through strength." Ever heard of "Mutual assured destruction?" (MAD) That is pointing nukes at each other and no one setting them off because of the THREAT of retaliation.
Iran may be a "sovereign" nation, but the whole rules on sovereignty are murky. If a nation commits a genocide, do the leaders lose their right as sovereign leaders? Should we put our interests behind the garbage rules of "international law?" I would say the answers are to the 1st question yes, to the 2nd, no. If a nation, such as Iran, has a stated interest in wiping Israel off the face of the earth (whom we are allies with), has an interest in the imposition of Sharia law, has a desire for the overthrow of the West, then we have a vested, legitimate interest in taking their nuclear facilities out.
"Pointing missiles" is not peace through strength, that is an attempt at "peace through threats." And threatening another nation is not going to make a tense situation better. --And again, the reason no other nation would not be legally able to dictate what kind of weapons we should have is because we are a sovereign nation....Unfortunately, even though we do not like it, so is Iran a sovereign nation. THAT is the point I was making.
"So you are saying if someone stops us from doing anything, they are impeding our safety, and we threaten them?"
I didn't say "anything." Don't try that garbage of taking things out of context. You asked about other nations trying to stop us from a project like building a nuke. Depending on who it is, say it's the UN, we defund them and evict them from NYC. If it's Iran or Pakistan, we point a few missiles there way and just let those speak for themselves. "Peace through strength." It's the Reagan way that led to the downfall of communism. It can lead to the downfall of Islamists.