The Right Scoop
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my comment is more toward the doctrine you pointed out. i see it no more or less strange than believing that we have immortal, untouchable souls that were made by an all powerfull, all knowing being. from a third person perspective all of us Christians look nuts.
if the church has 14 million+ members, is still growing, and the converts don't run and scream when they join then maybe some of the so called facts about them hiding evil behind the guise of Christianity out there are a little skewed. it does sometimes happen to "facts" overtime.
bullies in school yards mock others to make them feel better about themselves. same concept applies to religion and polotics. if you want someone to believe in what your saying don't smear the other guy, that just says to me that you lack enough confidence in yourself or what you believe in to convince me it's right. i would more readily listen to the clergy who said nothing negative about others and only promoted Christ than i would the guy who is trying to "save" us from the wicked by telling us what they heard about or read about them. likewise i would vote for the candidate who never ran a single smear campaign. to bad it's an impossibility.
Are you kidding??? You expect people to be respectful when you people aren't??? Amazing...double standard as usual!
Not exactly! Mormonism is more like Jehovah Witnesses, they both cling to the heresy of Arianism. As bad as most US modernized Christianity, none deny the deity of Christ.
Here is another quote that should make Christians shudder:
"In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, there is no hell. All will find a measure of salvation" (Apostle John Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, p. 216)
Sounds like modern day watered-down Christianity. My mother-in-law, a Lutheran, insisted on telling my children that there was no hell (contradicting me in front of them!). I had to ask my husband, what gives? He said he thought a lot of Lutherans believe that.
My husband's best friend (and best man) is a Lutheran pastor. He split off as well. I was really proud of him for standing up for what Christ taught.
More than likely. The ELCA is generally known for its liberal ideas toward Scripture. The one Lutheran church in my town that was associated with ELCA split off and is joining others that have separated themselves from the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America over the latest approval of ordaining gay clergy.
Mormonism? When are we going to draw the line? The cutoff time period for taking a religion seriously needs to be a few thousand years ago. This new-age stuff is getting ridiculous! Seer-Stones? Come on!
I'll take a Mormon over a Marxist any day of the week. Mormonism isn't responsible for the murder of millions. Also, having a slumber party with 48 wives, in my book, gets us the muslim vote.
Actually, quite a few people were murdered by Mormons in the early days of Joseph Smith & Brigham Young.
Another great Mormon teaching:
"In the divine economy, as in nature, the man 'is the head of the woman,' and it is written that 'he is the savior of the body.' But 'the man is not without the woman' any more than the woman is without the man, in the Lord. Adam was first formed, then Eve. In the resurrection, they stand side by side and hold dominion together. Every man who overcomes all things and is thereby entitled to inherit all things, receives power to bring up his wife to join him in the possession and enjoyment thereof. "In the case of a man marrying a wife in the everlasting covenant who dies while he continues in the flesh and marries another by the same divine law, each wife will come forth in her order and enter with him into his glory." (Leaves from the Tree of Life, by Apostle Charles W. Penrose, 1897, Salt Lake City, UT.)
Yep, they may not have polygamy here on earth but according to Apostle Penrose if a man happens to have a wife who dies and then he marries another, then he will have two wives with him in his glory. Please note "his glory" instead of being in the presence of Jesus. Gotta love having it both ways.
Yet the Bible states, "And Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are aconsidered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, (Luk 20:34-35 ESV)" This here must be one of those convenient errors that Mormons have found in God's Word.
For me, being a Mormon is not on the list of why I don't like Romney. It might help shape him, but it's the lying that I can't handle, or the same ideas the Obama has in health care, or not being sure which platitude he'll pick each day like picking out a shirt in the morning -- those are the things that get me about Romney.
If I thought the next president had the best policies but he/she happens to believe that pink elephants dance in the sky every Tuesday when there is an eclipse, I'd have to wonder how they got to the best policy part, but they still got there somehow. However, Romney's policies don't seem to exist and/or seem stable and he lies.
I can't support a liar on the right anymore than I can on the left.
The bigger problem I see is how anyone else can and I think Romney could very well lose to Obama.
I'm praying for the House and Senate to be on the right in 2012 and that the Supreme Court throws out the Obamacare.
Lord, hear my prayer.
I'm Catholic - in the 7% per O'Donnell.
How told larry that? Was it Bill Clinton or John Edward? Perhaps he called the Kennedy family.
"please be respectful of others and do not engage in personal attacks." That's laughable when you've posted this slanderous attach on the religion of 14 million people, including me. I'm too disgusted with this narrow-minded bigot to even respond to his comment. No you are not excused because your just sharing it. You are spreading it RightScoop without the outrage that should go with it. Should the guy lose his job? Absolutely. But an apology from his station would not even be enough.
And so it begins. The Republican party is finally going to be lead by the Mormon Cult. I guess Mammonism, and Fascism wasn't enough.
Looney Larry doing what he does best. Oh wait, remind me again, what Larry is good at? Oh that's right, not a damn thing.
Here are a couple of more wonderful Mormon quotes that the MSM will probably have a field day with:
According to revelation, however, he is a personal Being, a holy and exalted Man, a glorified, resurrected Personage having a tangible body of flesh and bones, an anthropomorphic Entity, the personal Father of the spirits of all men. (D. & C. 130:22- 23; Moses 6:51, 57; Abra. 3:22-24; Jos. Smith 2:16-19.)"
'It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God,' the inspired word continues, 'and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did.' The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same." (LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p.64)
It makes far more sense than the nicene creed does. Do you not believe that Jesus is God and that he was/is a man like us? If God does not have "body parts or passions" (from the nicene creed not the bible) why does it say in Genesis that he created man in his image?
Jesus is God made man. Not a man evolving into God. Jesus claimed to be God and was crucified for it.
Jesus Christ is God because He is the only Son of God, having the same divine nature as His Father.
Jesus Christ is true man, Because He has a body and soul like ours, and derived His human nature from His mother.
Hey, nobody said this was easy.
The same Bible tells us that God is Spirit and we are to worship Him in spirit. Also, Genesis speaks of God saying, "Let us...." Who is this "us".
Mormons do not believe Jesus is God, but a son from a sexual union of the father with a woman that also gave birth to Satan who is also Jesus' brother. Are you going to argue that Satan is God as well?
The other problem is that Mormonism rejects the doctrine of the Trinity and by doing so claim that Jesus is not God as you are trying to argue. You cannot have it both ways.
The same Bible tells us that God is Spirit and we are to worship Him in spirit. Also, Genesis speaks of God saying, "Let us...." Who is this "us".
Mormons do not believe Jesus is God, but a son from a sexual union of the father with a woman that also gave birth to Satan who is also Jesus' brother. Are you going to argue that Satan is God as well?
The other problem is that Mormonism rejects the doctrine of the Trinity and by doing so claim that Jesus is not God as you are trying to argue. You cannot have it both ways.
Yes. You can theoretically become like Jesus who is a "Spirit child". Jesus is a brother to you, not a unified part of the Trinity. This is my understanding from someone who used to be Mormon.
14 million - that includes all that are baptized, and have left the church, since it is nearly impossible for a person to remove his/her name from the cult's rolls.
Mormon missionaries paint a "beautiful" picture of happiness and lollipops - Missionaries DO tell potential recruits not to read anti-Mormon material, or to get advice from their friends and families; that all non-Mormon do is paint a bad picture of the cult.
I was "recruited" in 2002 and went through the do not read the misinformation indoctrination, and I seen it happened in two years as a ward missionaries following up with all those recently baptized.
The truth really does set one free.
NoMormonInWhiteHouse
Yes, we've been lying to people about what we believe since Joseph Smith; how else could we have 14 million members? It's not like they read or anything. We're just giving them Kool-Aid ® in the basement. That prevents them from doing any of that nasty reading. So yeah, you're right: the best way to find out what members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believe is to ask someone who is not a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, esp. those people whose sole mission in life (it seems) is to tear down The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
All cults members salute the Supreme Leader and drink the Kool-aid; only a fool comes to a cult breakfast and drinks the Kool-aid (coming and asking a cult member for the truth) sure, it is safe to drink, do you want some ice and sugar with it.
I'm not asking you to take my word on my religion being true, only to take the words of actual members of the LDS church on what member of the LDS church believe. My testimony of the truth of my church can help you to feel the spirit, but if you want to know if the church is true, you can not rely on my testimony alone. "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." James 1:5
Who do you ask if Santa Claus if real? Do you go to the Mall and ask the fat red man sitting on the throne? Do you go to the North Pole and look for reindeer droppings?
You don't ask the brother's Grimm if their fairy tales are real, and expect an honest answer.
Likewise, you don't ask the propagandist if their propaganda is true.
Mormons can call a couch a chair, but that doesn't make the couch a chair.
Thank you for responding. Others on here have linked me to various sites; however, I am having trouble getting anyone to engage me directly. I think a back-and-forth would be more informative. I am certainly sympathetic if you don't have time. Also, I can imagine how unpleasant it might be to engage if what you generally experience is a lack of civility or worse. That is not my style, and I have no animus at all towards members of your church.
I don't have much time to respond right now, to engage in a dialogue, so I would refer you to any of the following websites:
The official Church website: http://www.lds.org/
http://www.mormondialogue.org/
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/
http://www.shields-research.org/
http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/
Note that all of these websites are not sanctioned by the church, just lds.org is. I'm not sure whether the Maxwell institute is sanctioned by the church or not, but it may be, as it is a BYU website.
I assure you, I am no dummy when it comes to my faith. There plenty of people more capable than me when it comes to discussing LDS doctrine. Not that I couldn't answer your questions if I had the time, but I really don't have the time. I appreciate your willingness to engage in a civil dialogue.
Hmmm, so Mormon doctrine is based on assumptions. Wow, this is truly sad. Mormonism cannot even defend itself since there is no foundation, just speculation.
Since this is what you say Brian, then this is why it falters since it rejects the Bible as the only source of divine specific revelation.
The sad truth is that the heresies always repeat themselves and so they have with Arianism being a major one.
You are correct that such discussion is quite refreshing and I think at times more enriching than political ones.
Not really. Official Mormon doctrine is a little hard to pin down as there has been a lot of speculation. The King Follet Discourse was Joseph Smith's final Sermon before he died and that is what a lot of the speculation is based upon. https://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary/18.2LarsonKingFollett-788e0c92-f320-42a3-bccc-7bf232ab8432.pdf
It is a good question. One problem is that churches no longer call for deep commitment to their communities. Each and everyone of us desire two things. One to worship, the second is to belong to a community. The community aspect for Christians should consist of a challenge to grow deeper in relationship with God (discipleship) and to grow by expressing this relationship to others (evangelism).
In general, this is no longer required but simply hoped for. Religious cults fill this void by offering a high demand to be a part of their community that espouses a "love" that many Christians should be the example.
The other aspect is that Mormonism and JW's start small, sounding and speaking like Christians. They always start with the Bible, "demonstrate the problems with the modern Bible and church", and then entice others with why their understanding is much clearer and better. This is done usually over the course of several visits.
It was refreshing to see an intelligent discussion on Arianism and the creeds. There were a lot of heresies that came and went during that first millenium. The truth will win out in the end.
What would entice someone to join LDS when their beliefs are so foreign to Christians? If you are right that they are successful with regular churchgoers, that is indeed a mystery.
I could understand if people were vulnerable because they lacked a church family. Maybe it is the way churches have deviated from the traditional moral teachings. Seems like the LDS aren't shy about sticking to their moral principles. The Catholic churches I have attended that have gone squishy are far less attended than the ones with the younger priests who energetically proclaim the faith and don't shy away from teaching moral truths.
Thank you teri_b. I am a theologian and pastor. I deeply enjoy church history and studying religious beliefs. I have studied at Moody Bible Institute and Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary.
Yes, it is part of the slow build so that the deeper they go the less they question and the more they accept. The sad part of all of this is that Mormonism and JW's are more successful on those who attend church than those who do not.
maybe you can clarify things for me then. Do the tenets of your faith evolve? Do you believe that God used to be man? Do men become gods and rule over their own planet or universe? How would a Mormom appeal to a Christian if trying to convert them? What would be so compelling that they would disregard 2000 years of Christian tradition to switch to something less than 200 years old and so unknown? Was Moroni an angel or a man, or both?
http://www.libertypages.com/cgw/2010/09/28/mormons-and-atheists-most-knowledgeable-about-religion/
Interestingly Mormons read the most about religion. Mormons, black Protestants and white evangelicals are the most frequent readers of materials about religion. Fully half of all Mormons (51%) and roughly three-in-ten white evangelicals (30%) and black Protestants (29%) report that they read books or go online to learn about their own religion at least once a week.
I don't think there's a problem with Mormons understanding their own religion.
That is consistent with what I have heard too. There is a progressive revelation as you work higher into their system. I think this is true with JWs and also Scientology. Sort of a gnosticism in a way.
There are Mormons who do not know their belief system as well as they should. As with any religious belief system, there are many who are not aware. Some of this is intentional, especially with Mormons and JW's. They desire to work on the newbies slowly but surely.
The Mormon I was debating with here said he (or she) believed in one God, and agreed with my definition of the Trinity. He/she also criticized me for saying that I didn't think many LDS people understood their own doctrines. You may have just proved my point.
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