Levin defends Allen West over threat of primary

Posted by The Right Scoop on July 29th, 2011 in Politics | 118 Comments

Levin is a little ticked that certain people are using the threat of primarying Allen West to attack the Tea Party, asking “are they trying to get their ratings up?” He says first and foremost that West is a solid Congressman and even though he strongly disagrees with him on the Boehner Plan, he says there’s no way we are going to do better than West in his district:

Levin defends Allen West over threats to primary [ 2:09 ] Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

I pretty much said the same thing earlier. West is as solid as they come and to threaten a primary for someone like him over the Boehner Plan is ridiculous on all fronts.

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Anonymous

who is the jerk Levin is talking about
Anonymous

Ahem!
Anonymous

Can’t disagree with much Levin said there. A disagreement on one issue does not turn a hero into a zero.

IF West said he would run for president and IF Palin said she wouldn’t and IF I was a US citizen – would help i guess lol – he’d still get my vote.
http://twitter.com/MaroonRepublic Maroon Republic

I said the same. Allen West is solid. We can’t get down on solid conservatives on one vote here and there that we disagree with. If he continues to show himself as a rhino then there is reason to worry.

I know he ultimately wants what we want.

Salute

Anonymous

A “solid” conservative? Why does it take many compromises to affirm a lack of solidity?

Anonymous

I think Levin is acting too sanctimonious about Laura’s interview with West this morning. I am very saddened that he sent that nasty,low class tweet out about her book. You think that he would save that for the likes of Ed Schultz or Olbermann. Mark is not the oracle of all things conservative. He’s really disappointed and surprised me that he not only broke the 11th commandment he treated Laura like she was Pelosi. I think everyone’s temperatures need to cool.

Anonymous

“I think everyone’s temperatures need to cool.” -yeah starting with Laura.

http://www.theancient.us The Ancient

I said the same thing, Allen West is Solid Except when he is Liquid and selling out ohhhh I guess that is not the same thing….

“Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.”
— Alexander Hamilton

http://www.theancient.us The Ancient

I just had to turn the channel on watching the Harry Reid Presser on CNN (dont even know if ti was live) but that is what you get when you try and compromise with the Socialists.

They are now going to hold the line for tax increases, and I am 80% sure right now Ryan, Boohooer and the rest will cave.

http://twitter.com/myronfalwell Nathan Obral

Even if it was live, it WAS Dingy Harry, so it probably is not a literal definition of “live.”

Anonymous

This is why Mark is called “The Great one”.

“The enemy comes to seek and destroy” We need to be united.
http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/MVKB24PATKM3BXCRTLD62FUKK4 Richard

Boehner said to Allen West “vote yeah” and Allen said “YES SIR”.The problem with that,Boehner is not his boss,the tea party are

http://www.therightscoop.com/ therightscoop

I don’t think it went down the way you suggest. Allen West will always take full responsibility for his votes. He’s no puppet.

http://www.solitudeholdings.com/blog1/ Dan C

Yes that is one reason why I really like him. He does not hide from his votes.
Anonymous

Exactly right! Time we stop eating our own, and the best of our own at that.
http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/MVKB24PATKM3BXCRTLD62FUKK4 Richard

I certainly hope so.But being in the military,you acquire bad habits for civilian life

KenInMontana

Bad habits for civilian life? From being in the Military? Funny, that wasn’t what I came away with, now skill sets I have several of those that are not applicable/suitable for civilian life, but because of my training I keep those under wraps, but you sound like you speak from experience,so why don’t you enlighten us?

KenInMontana

Funny I thought his “Bosses” were the residents of FL22 and since when did the Tea Parties become an official political party? Those speaking for those organizations always denied they were a political party.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YGATSUTKIDXGK3MCOS634SH4QM Alicia

Pew poll:68% of americans want compromise on debt deal.

http://www.theancient.us The Ancient

Polls are like a$$holes, everyone has one and they all stink

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YGATSUTKIDXGK3MCOS634SH4QM Alicia

I take it that you’re in the 32% then.

http://www.theancient.us The Ancient

I am the Realist Faction that already understands that we are bankrupt and have already driven off the cliff. The majority of the people have not realized it yet or do not believe they are currently in a freefall. Kind of like the Coyote in the old Roadrunner Cartoons.

NOTHING anyone in Washington will do will change it. Compromise, no compromise, does not matter at this point we are past the point of no return
http://www.theancient.us The Ancient

I am the Realist Faction that already understands that we are bankrupt and have already driven off the cliff. The majority of the people have not realized it yet or do not believe they are currently in a freefall. Kind of like the Coyote in the old Roadrunner Cartoons.

NOTHING anyone in Washington will do will change it. Compromise, no compromise, does not matter at this point we are past the point of no return

Anonymous

Love West, love Levin. I wish Levin would name names, call them out.

I’d stand on the side of LTC. West any day, anytime, anywhere. That man proved himself LONG before he ever got to congress and that’s just the plain truth.

Anonymous

You won’t believe it,
Laura Ingraham to Sarah Palin “Who’d You Say You Want to Primary – Pence, Ryan, West?”
I don’t have anything nice to say about Sarah, so I won’t say anything at all.

http://www.solitudeholdings.com/blog1/ Dan C

Exactly, we need contested primaries with certain Republicans absolutely, but we should not waste our time doing it with West.
Linky1

Two men with morals, scruples and values and they don’t back down from them. No wonder I admire them so much-few if any politicians or commentators can hold a candle to Levin and West.
Linky1

Two men with morals, scruples and values and they don’t back down from them. No wonder I admire them so much-few if any politicians or commentators can hold a candle to Levin and West.
Anonymous

we need to check the Alan West Vote record .

Anonymous

Check away….I’ll support that man until he pays BO a visit, sits on his lap, and calls him his long lost mama.
LTC. West has done more for every single citizen in this country before ever taking a seat in congress then we can every repay him for….

Anonymous

Hear Hear badbad. Allen West oozes integrity..something DC urgently needs.

Palin/West 2012
Anonymous

here his vote record , please check the big issues and tell me what you think
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes.xpd?year=2011&person=412413
if not the first time to he doing the same .
Anonymous

here his vote record , please check the big issues and tell me what you think
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes.xpd?year=2011&person=412413
if not the first time to he doing the same .

KenInMontana

Do you work for “Poodle” Wasserman-Schultz?

Anonymous

hell no ,but in my case I dont listen anymore the politicians they always have excuse when they dont vote concervative.why?
Anonymous

Since when is reporting on a congressman’s actual voting record a smear to be likened with the vile Debbie Wasserman Shultz?

West has become well known for having a shaky record of votes compared to other freshmen associated with the Tea Party. The last piece I read about it was a couple of months ago when he scored 71% for voting against spending bills. That’s not considered a very good record by Tea Party standards but he scored better than some other freshmen.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YGATSUTKIDXGK3MCOS634SH4QM Alicia

Fla. dist. 22 Could be less conservative i am not sure.

KenInMontana

From what I have read on FL22 it’s pretty close to an even split between (R) & (D). If I remember it correctly West won by 54% to 47%.

KenInMontana

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but last I looked,the letters used to denote party affiliation were (R), (D) and (I), I have yet to see a (TP) although you’d probably end up with three different variations for that one. So West scored a 71%, so how does that stack up against all other members of the House? Does it rate calling for his head on a platter? Does it justify the infighting among Conservatives that has resulted from these apparent overly ambitious “Tea Party Standards”? Just which of the three different Tea Parties are setting these standards anyway and just where, pray tell are they written down? With all these litmus tests, purity tests and rampant over-zealotry that has been brought into play this cycle (witness the previous West thread) not to mention the “circular firing squad” mentality that has recently become vogue and pursued by purists with vitriolic abandon to the point that any questioning it are labeled RINO or worse. At this rate the Libs are going to waltz their way right back into the majority. No wonder they are laughing.

Anonymous

Don’t be so defensive. The post you replied to with the accusation that they were a “poodle” for Wasserman Shultz was simply a page that reported West’s voting record. The comment itself made no judgments and the link made no judgments.

Listen, I support Sarah Palin so I know what it’s like to be attacked and ridiculed because I support a politician other people hate with the passion of a thousand suns. It’s not fun and it’s easy to get defensive about it.

This isn’t like that whether you see it or not. The truth is that Allen West attacked the Tea Party at the first hint that it wasn’t happy with him. Sure, that initial report about a primary challenge wasn’t true. But that does not change how he reacted to it. I’m willing to cut him some slack for the Ingraham interview because he was feeding off her lead and it’s easy to get caught up in the emotion of the situation. I wish he hadn’t said what he said, but the guy is human and considering the context it wasn’t all that bad.

Then he gives the interview to NRO where he compares criticism from the Tea Party to when he faced the Taliban and Al-Qaeda . Did you read that interview? Did you read the part where he mimicked dusting off his shoulders and smiled as he compared the Tea Party to terrorists?

I am not going to go around the internet trashing Allen West. But he is not the man people want him to be and I won’t sit by silently while he’s built up as a conservative icon. Because he isn’t one. He’s just a man who has done great things in his life and has the potential to be a good Congressman if he can keep his ego in check.

And I certainly won’t sit by silently while people trash the Tea Party in a misguided attempt to defend a man who simply needs more experience before he’s lionized.

And just one more thing: people defending Allen West REALLY need to make a concerted effort to avoid EVER mentioning Debbie Wasserman Shultz. You should know why.

KenInMontana

First of all you misread my question to the poster, that’s right a question, an accusation would have been phrased as such “So you work for…..” not “Do you..” .
Secondly, I did not refer to the poster as “Poodle”, go back and read it again, it was W-S to whom it referred.
Thirdly, don’t go off half cocked and accuse me of something I didn’t say and you won’t get a partially defensive response.
Lastly, West was responding to an apparent attack on him from what seemed to be over zealous “Tea Party Nation” members and yes I read the articles in question, and in my opinion West’s gesture like a lot of things lately was taken wildly out of context and blown beyond all reasonable proportion. As the threads related to this subject attest. Likewise you should not expect those of us that feel that it is way too soon to be throwing West under the bus to remain silent either.
Anonymous

OK, I’ll make a deal with you. It’s Debbie Wasserman Shultz that pushes my buttons when it comes to Allen West. You know why so I’m not gonna bother explaining it.

Don’t ever reference her again when defending West and I’ll keep my big mouth shut.

Oh, and don’t trash the Tea Party. They’re right.
KenInMontana

Don’t recall trashing the Tea Party. But I won’t refrain from calling BS, when I see it, there is too much at stake right now.
Anonymous

I like this little debate after a ask everybody here tho check Mr West record and I sure to nobody check his record .In the begining I like this man everytime hes speak , he sound real , he now the issues, he attack the man in the WH .But in the moment of true hes no back up what he says. example 2011 budget , he vote yes more than 1 trillion deficit , health care , he vote for repeal and them he vote no for unfounded , them libia war , and now the what they call the debt crisis .I am ask all of you to check his record is clear ,I am now his is not the only one.But who you see out there everything speak again this ad. I dont need to see him sits on Obama lap like badbadlibs ,I dont work for Wasserman-Schultz like KenInMontana ask here.I am only tell Mr West and all politician vote right first and them talk , I be tired of all the excused .
KenInMontana

Why don’t you ask Rep.West yourself ? I call my Senators and Representative whenever I have an issue with the way they vote. Baucus got an earful from me over “healthcare reform”, as did Tester. If you are one of his constituents then it is your right as well as your duty to question him and it is his duty to respond to those questions. From the little I know of him I believe if you pose an honest question to him he will respond.
Anonymous

We dont need honests questions, we need honests answers
KenInMontana

Then ask him to answer upon his honor as a soldier, if he is half the man I think he is he will answer honestly.

Anonymous

So, who is this Tea Party anyway? I watched some news including the Fox All-Schmucks panel. Round and round they went telling me how the TP said this, wants that, did such and such. Who are they talking about? Anyone have a name? The TP has become the biggest straw man in history. They have already surpassed “the Christian Right.”

Anonymous

EXCELLENT comment. I am waaay sick of the ennnndless hot air that’s been blown’ round about a NON-singular as thought there was an ancient, object, person or thing that has been lurking in an ever-present and all-manipulative manner….like it was something for Ripley’s Believe It or Not.

Anonymous

Allen West caved pure and simple. Mark Levin defending him and then calling out some ‘unidentified Repubican jerk’ is also troubling. Does Mark Levin believe what he says or not? Wasn’t this the fight to save America or not? Was this a fight on principle or not?

Read Andrew C. McCarthy today on NRO. It clearly explains what has just happened.

The bell has tolled folks. Enjoy the collapse.

Anonymous

Hmmm… grim reading, thanks for the heads up.

Anonymous

Thanks.

By the way Rush is on good form on a Realclearpolitics vid. As always he gets the passions up.
Anonymous

Rush has taken to calling them “Krauthammer Review Online”

Kinda lines right up there with calling O’Reilly “Ted Baxter.”

http://doorwaybuck.com CM Sackett

“…calling O’Reilly “Ted Baxter.” ”

That’s too true to be funny… but I laughed out loud anyway!
kerry anderson

NRO aka KRO is mostly squishy Frum-like Re-pubs but Andrew McCarthy is a stalwart traditional Conservative with very strong principles and a long career of fighting the Islamist as a Federal Attorney in the Southern District of NY. There are a few others @ KRO worthwhile writers such as Mark Steyn & the Enviro guy.

Anonymous

I like Andrew McCarthy, and guys like Steyn are sort of “guests” with privileges. But reading their site always irritates me more than informs. Especially the young geniuses who are always parsing the hell out of everything in a bid for “accuracy” (but somehow manage to stomp on the toes of Conservatives, Libertarians, and Mainstream Republicans while doing so).

Too many “own goals” for my taste.

Anonymous

NRO? No thanks.
Anonymous

Good point and I had the same thought, and Levin is usually my boy.

Agree about the collapse. Haven’t read it, but Sen Mike Lee has a new book in which he says there is a study to show that the central gov/t can’t collect more that 18-19% of the GDP in taxes, no matter how high the marginal rates get. People just stop engaging in commerce.

By quick-count math, I don’t see how Uncle Sam can pay what he will owe in 10 years without literally printing a Trillion or two every year.

Anonymous

You think the Tea Party is schitzoid?? You stand in front of them and tell them you hate Obama..and then vote to fund Obamacare, Do more Tea Party Rallys and you hate Obama, then vote to give Millions to the pigford scammers, then go along with some BS plan that cuts nothing. Right. Farce.
http://troy2012.myopenid.com/ TROY2012

Allen West is a LIAR and a TRAITOR….

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_53YAPDXSTIGEDINDXF46CAB7ZY voted against carter

troy,…

NOT.
http://doorwaybuck.com CM Sackett

Clicked on “TROY2012″… found this:

“This is an OpenID Identity page. This user has chosen not to display any information on this page.”

YOU are a gutless, ball-less, spineless Sorosiod on the bum of Life (being a conscienceless LIAR is simply part of the DNA there).

Oh, and PAWatcher, brad111, and the “1 more person”… add yourselves to the hot, steaming pile.

CM Sackett

KenInMontana

It (TRON,TROY,TROM 2012) are one in the same, a spammer from the Dominican Republic that has been working around bans.

http://doorwaybuck.com CM Sackett

It’s probably using a VIF (virtual interface) system to utilize multiple IPs (probably class C addresses).

KenInMontana

General IP Information
Hostname: 175.204.80.190.m.sta.codetel.net.do
ISP: Compañía Dominicana de Teléfonos, C. por A. – CODE
Organization: Compañía Dominicana de Teléfonos, C. por A. – CODE
Services: None detected
Type: Unknown
Assignment: Static IP
Blacklist:
Geolocation Information
Country: Dominican Republic do flag
State/Region: Santiago
City: Santiago
Latitude: 19.45
Longitude: -70.7

Anonymous

Heh, it was so over-the-top I thought it was sarcasm.

I guess it’s good to use the /sarc tag, even when it should be obvious. ‘Coz sometimes it ain’t sarcasm.

KenInMontana

The last go around we had with this one(or ones) it was spamming “Palin 2012″ messages and smearing every other GOP candidate on almost every thread regardless of topic. It seems what we have is ,for lack of a better term, a “political mercenary”. I guess it’s part of the price paid for breaking into the top 20 conservative blogs, as RS did a little bit back.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1203122132 Ryan J. Daugherty

There’s true irony in a foreign-based person referring to a U.S. citizen and retired LtC. in the Army as a traitor, but then refusing to make themselves known at all…Just sayin, LOL

http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Benson/100000924910894 John Benson

I tend to agree. West is solid gold. Enuff.
Anonymous

What West has to say about it is what matters. Not some nameless “Tea Party.”
Anonymous

What West has to say about it is what matters. Not some nameless “Tea Party.”
http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Florey/100002543536293 Mike Florey

Thanks Frankthephone for tipping us to Andrew McCarthy in NRO: “Americans did not suddenly fall in love with Republicans. They remain wary of the GOP, and — as we’re seeing — for good reason. The electoral revolt was strictly a center-right nation’s revulsion against governance by the hard Left. Republicans reaped the benefits because they were the only alternative, not because the public is convinced that they’ve learned anything from their stint in the wilderness.”

Now the Tea Party stands up as the only other alternative to ‘business as usual’. Because 22 or so tea party freshman representatives aren’t playing ‘go along to get along’ they come under fire from colleagues who instead should be in the gallery cheering with the rest of us.

I admire and support Colonel West, I would like to see more like him in both houses, but I’m with Levin on this one. Not a good decision congressman. Still in all, it doesn’t deserve the threat of a primary.

We conservatives just need to win more elections.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Dave-Kawasaki/1798183858 Dave Kawasaki

Couldn’t agree more that conservatives need to win more elections. This starts with county commissioners, town councils, school boards, etc.

Some who are jumping on the “West is a RINO” bandwagon should consider that politics is chess. Lord knows the dhimmicrats understand this; conservatives should, too.

The dhimmis have had a hundred-year run of screwing the People. It is high time for the People to organize, educate, and recruit in order to counteract the marxist crap that’s been shoveled onto our heads (and those of our kids & grandkids as well). Defeating marxism is the objective, not turning on our best and brightest because they voted against your wishes.

I’d guess West is familiar with the bill and its various provisions, and will vote yes on it based on a longer game than his detractors are playing.
Anonymous

From the 1940′s through the 1970′s corporations were paying 50% more of the tax burden than individuals. For every $1 I paid corporations paid $1.50. Since the 80′s the corporate contribution has decreased and currently they pay 25 cents for every $1 individuals pay.

This caused the country to start accumulating a huge deficit because it was unable to meet it’s obligations. Now corporations are sitting on piles of money, and they buy bonds and get tax free income from loaning us money that should have been taxed in the first place. Then to add insult to injury they want the old and sick people to pick up their part of the tab.

We can’t be so blind not to see that corporations are doing what ever they want with our government and we are not holding them responsible.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GFZ4NQSAULWUMOKXDI4Y7YJGZU Eric

Let’s try a little logic game….

Where do you think corporations get thier money?

Ok, now once you figure that out, who then is ultimately paying the corporate tax? Or do you really believe that corporations can exist if they don’t at least breakeven?

Now, tell me again why you think increasing taxes on corporations are going to make things better for you and me?

Raising corporate taxes is effectively a sales tax that first gets funneled through corporate income statements, where the governement/politicians get to pick the winners and losers through loopholes and tax breaks. Hence GE not paying a nickel of taxes last year.

Anonymous

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/files/2010/11/profits.jpg

That isn’t a very logical way to look it at. We need to ask what is best for our society as a whole. I’ve seen ‘job creators’ get incentives, subsidies and tax breaks but fail us when it comes to taking care of our people with acceptable wage jobs and benefits. Health insurance used to be a given, pensions were too. We have tried it for over 30 years and it doesn’t work, plain and simple.

KenInMontana

Sounds like Union organizing talk to me, employers when they choose to, offer benefits such as 401Ks, and insurance to attract a better, long term employee. Some companies do, some don’t, it was never required of employers to offer them though. As Persephone pointed out, employers pay the lion’s share of the employee’s “premiums” on SSI, medicare, to the Feds they also do the same with medicaid and unemployment, on top of that the employee is paid (in most cases) a decent wage for their labor. Were you aware that on top of that employers (Corporations) pay the second highest corporate tax rate in the world? All this, then lump excessive demands by unions and people still wonder why all the jobs keep going overseas, well duh!

Anonymous

Excellent point, now lets apply that to the front end and say that we put a tariff tax on certain imports(where corporations make most of their money). If i choose to buy those products I choose to contribute and I have a choice! If my wage is taxed I can not choose not to be taxed.

Your stats on corporate tax are well off the mark, we are actually one of the lower rates in the industrialized countries. Here is a chart to look over from official stats from OECD.

http://fiscalsecurity.squarespace.com/storage/infographic_tue.pdf

KenInMontana

First off tariffs result in punitive tariffs in return. However your stats are based on percentage of GDP which is a bit dishonest, it’s a different kettle of fish when you look at actual tax rates.
We have slipped to fifth recently although it’s nothing to crow about as a 40% rate is not business friendly. These figures are from 2009
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/tax_hig_mar_tax_rat_cor_rat-highest-marginal-tax-rate-corporate

Here are figures from 2005 you will note in the graph at that time we were at under 40% and second behind Japan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

Anonymous

The 40% rate has no bearing on reality when only a very few actually pay those taxes. That is why the tax vs gdp is more telling of the REAL tax that those companies are bearing. I guess we could tax you 100% and give you incentives and breaks that allow you to pay no taxes and you’d still be paying 100%.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/tax_tot_tax_as_of_gdp-taxation-total-as-of-gdp
KenInMontana

Actually I think you’re the one with no bearing on reality here. End of story. Why don’t you take it over to Think Progress or Huffpo where you’ll find an audience eager to swallow what you’re peddling. No one here is buying.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1203122132 Ryan J. Daugherty

Your “society as a whole” is really just code for Socialist/Communist/Marxist dogma.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YGATSUTKIDXGK3MCOS634SH4QM Alicia

Vote dem then.Jeeez.
Persephone

Your ignorance is showing, Brad111.

Do you have any idea how much corporations pay into Social Security and Medicare every month?
I doubt it.

Do you know that every other country on the planet treats their corporations like Kings?
While the media here, treats our corporations like they are the root of all evil.
And you seem to have totally bought into their propaganda.

Do you know that other countries even use their covert intelligence agencies to spy on US corporations to obtain their trade secrets?
And when they obtain any of those trade secrets…they hand them over to their own domestic corporations.

Do you even know why businesses have to incorporate in order to survive in this country?
Do you even know the history of that?

Anonymous

It seems to me that government creates the structure to force people into corporation, and when they get big enough, there is no real difference between the corporation and government. Big-corp is definitely a threat to freedom, because we have corporate cronyism.

While the little guy is just trying to survive, they inadvertently get sucked into a bigger system of corruption.

I do not pay attention to what the media has to say about it, because they too are corporate/government cronies. Ultimately, I view the media’s anti-corporate sentiment as a divisive tactic rather than having any real merit or foundation in principle. They have this in common with government.

Using intelligence agencies to spy on US corporations is largely something that could be considered a national incident, because trade secrets are obtained through collusion with government to start with.

Just my perspective.

Persephone

Well, you are partially there Elmer.
Some reading on the history of how corporations evolved would help you to understand it.

Governments create the punitive laws which have caused the creation of corporations.
And…
Corporations get big…because the demand for their products gets big…because the population gets big.
We have Big Corporations, because we have Big Populations.

We were a lot free-er when the population was a lot smaller.

As the population of a country increases…
The laws of that country increase.
This results in the decrease in personal freedom.

Any analysis of history…or governance…without factoring in the pressures of population increases………..is an incomplete and thus, flawed one.

One of the reasons why we have a debt problem is because we have been driving our corporations to move their labor-intensive operations away from our shores…into countries which welcome them with open arms.
Jobs feed the Treasury.
Both Federal and State treasuries.
The job-creators feed Social Security and Medicare as much as the workers.
For every dollar that is withheld in SS/Med taxes…the boss has to match that dollar.

Anonymous

Yes, but have you considered that corporate cronyism in government stomps out competition that would reduce the corporate influence on society and on government?

Small manufacturers and innovators are literally stomped out. Do you really think that our auto manufacturers had open and fair competition through our history? Without being exempt from the same regulations and meaningful competition, many corporations would eventually fold due to their size. They get so bogged down with bureaucracy that they cannot innovate and compete. This is when government comes in and bails them out and leave the rest of the economy holding the bag.

Small companies can often produce the same product at lower costs. It is the place of government to increase the cost so that they cannot succeed.

Populations have effected the things that you talk about. Our population growth is largely attributed to our social systems and immigration. Within those systems are control mechanisms. That is why the social systems were created. That is why our borders are open. Middle class Americans are decreasing in population due to popular trends such as environmental and economical concerns. A 1.6 per family replacement rate produces a population reduction.

The point is that socioeconomic manipulation is shaping our population. If we had free markets and even competition, our population would balance itself based on natural trends.

In the end, corporations help shape the culture just as well as government does. They only have this ability because they are protected by their own power to dominate society through these means.

That is part of the bigger picture that few are looking at. It is a systematic problem that, if left unchecked, will continue to control and enslave our society.

It is not the institution of corporations that is the problem, it is the behavior.

Anonymous

You make some great points elmerfud71! At issue right now is the merger of At&t and t-mobile. The tea party is backing them but congressional reps did receive $377,500 last year from at&t. With the next election being post citizens united donations are likely to be much larger.

http://www.dailytech.com/US+Senate+Committee+Suggests+ATT+TMobile+Merger+be+Blocked/article22222.htm

Anonymous

Thanks for the link. It is hard to tell what they are up to exactly, but I don’t believe that they are doing anything good. The bottom line is that if they let it go through, it will be bad. Maybe the Ds are just putting up a show. Who knows. I didn’t buy into the rhetoric about splitting up Microsoft. Microsoft had lied, cheated, and stolen so much before they split them up, that a split wouldn’t have made much difference. We didn’t exactly get a whole lot of competitors out of it.

http://trom2012.myopenid.com/ TROM2012

How much money did they pay you, Allen West?

Persephone

How are you able to walk with that knee-jerk condition you have.

Insulting Colonel West like that is beyond the pale.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GFZ4NQSAULWUMOKXDI4Y7YJGZU Eric

Fool me once (Pigford), shame on you Mr. West, fool me twice (Boehner deal), shame on me.

You don’t get to rail on principles and then pick and choose when to apply them. You really don’t understand the situation and are over your head, or you know the tough-talk resonates with voters and that the average American idiot has a short attention span to remember these kind of details, like voting records.

Persephone

You are chosing to completely ignore the Propaganda War that is going on.

This comment of yours tells me, that…
“You really don’t understand the situation and are over your head”.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Allen/1694040137 Mike Allen

If you are saying West’s vote for Boehner’s last bill was to win the Propaganda War, I pray you please, tell me how that helped.

The house had already passed, with bipartisan support, the Cut, Cap, and Balance bill. Harry Reid tabled it. He didn’t defeat it. He simply set it aside. He couldn’t let it come to a vote because he knew it would probably have passed. Then the liar-in-chief would have been forced to veto it.

By writing yet another bill, with weak republican support and NO dem support at all, all the repubs look like fools. No propaganda is even needed. They are fools. The bill should have been defeated.

Anonymous

This is an interesting video that, I believe, we could all judge these guys by.
Persephone

“Fools”…?
So say you.

Need some dots connected?
Okay.
Obama has been stomping on the Constitution since he took office.
He studied Constitutional Law.
So he knows how to weaken it…real well.
Let’s set this thought aside for a minute.

Obama has been declaring that the Republicans are being “irresponsible” and are “holding the country hostage”.
But Boehner and the House Reps keep sending solutions over to the Senate.
These solutions include what Obama has been asking for…an increase in the debt ceiling.
These solution include some spending cuts that the debt-rating services are calling for in order to not downgrade our credit ratings.
How is that being ‘irresponsible’ or holding anyone ‘hostage’?

No matter how the ObamaMedia tries to spin this…
The fact remains, that the House Republicans are sending out solutions to this so-called ‘crisis’.
They are giving Obama something that he wants.
This seems to me like they are doing some demagogue-proofing on what they are doing.

Now…back to the Constitution:
Obama’s team has already been forwarding the idea of Obama just bypassing Congress altogether and raising the debt ceiling all by himself.
A King could do that.
But a President is not supposed to have that power.
He has already said that he would like to get things done without having to deal with Congress.
And if Boehner doesn’t agree to raising the debt ceiling…that could give him the excuse he is waiting for.

And who would stop him?
As I pointed out…Obama has already been stomping on the Constitution, weakening it in many ways, by creating new precedents that are going unchallenged.
He uses propaganda to intimidate anyone who might try to challenge him.

When you are facing an opponent on the battlefield who is more powerful and outnumbers you…
You have to wear them down.
Buy more time until you have the firepower and manpower to defeat them.
The same thing applies in a propaganda war.
The longer this thing drags out…the more people are waking up to what a childish punk this president is.

Anonymous

Very well said Persephone!
http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Allen/1694040137 Mike Allen

Obama has been stomping on the Constitution… I totally agree!

Liar-in-chief’s bullshite rhetoric of irresponsible and hostage taking is just that, bullshite rhetoric. He lost 40,000 twitter followers because of it.

“… House Reps keep sending solutions over to the Senate…” Why send more than Cut, Cap, and Balance? Make them vote it down before sending another bill. Force the Senate to vote on it. Debate it and vote on it. If it fails, THEN send them another bill. The cuts in Cut, Cap, and Balance are enough to keep from getting down-graded. Boehner 2.0… not so much. They’re going to down-grade us anyway.

The liar-in-chief has been advised by his attorneys not to go the 14th amandment route. I think he believes them over Bill Clinton. If not, he’ll be impeached quicker than you can say “tar and feathers”.

The house is holding the all the good cards here. There is absolutely no need to show their hand, no need to compromise any more than they are, and no need to send more than one bill to the Senate before the one they already have is voted down.

“… what a childish punk this this president is.” I totally agree again !!!

Persephone

“The house is holding the all the good cards here.”

No.
They’re not.
How can you say that?
We have a majority of R-cats…but keeping them herded up for a vote is difficult.
People in this very thread are a good example of how difficult it is to get every conservative on the same page, at the same time.

“…he’ll be impeached quicker than you can say “tar and feathers”.”

Oh really?
By who?
Who is going to want to Impeach the “first black President”?
Are you kidding me?

“Why send more than Cut, Cap, and Balance?”

To wear them down, dear…to wear them down.
The best thing that we can do right now, is to keep Barry and Harry agitated and having public hissy fits.
It’s a propaganda war, remember.

“They’re going to down-grade us anyway.”

I wouldn’t be so sure about that.
Moodys is already backtracking a bit on that.
Standard & Poors is a domestic agency that is seeing exactly what is going on.

http://doorwaybuck.com CM Sackett

“…Who is going to want to Impeach the “first black President”?”

I, CM Sackett… WOULD (the ONLY reason that ‘would’ is not a ‘WILL’ is because of Constitutional restraints on private citizens).

Pers, I am 99.9% sure you crafted that line out of a combination of personal satire, and observed gutlessness on the part of those of OUR ‘representatives’ who do indeed cower at this turd’s skin tone (backed by a ‘white guilt’ media/judiciary/urban-coastal cowardice). But I’d damn-sure impeach him… without the protection of the media, UNjudiciary, naacp, etc.

THE FOLLOWING IS NOT AIMED AT YOU, dear lady…

Any ‘man’ who fears another man because of his skin color, or the rag on his head, or the lawyer in his pocket… has forgotten his own heritage, AS AN AMERICAN.

I have lived 51 years as an AMERICAN.

I shall die as one, as well.
CM Sackett

NOTE: IF (and that is an imeasurable ‘if’) Allen West is shown to have finally run into an enemy that freezes his courage, THEN I shall tell him… to his face, what I know of him. Until then, I stand with him, against ALL comers.

Persephone

Oh I hear ya, CM.

Remember how we had majorities in both Houses back in ’98 and we still couldn’t get Clinton impeached for perjury & obstruction of justice?
It fell apart in the Senate.

They used the propaganda of “It’s just about sex” to ridicule that effort.
And it worked.
Remember how Clinton used to tell people that he considered himself “the first black President”?

Well now we have someone who has more of a claim to that distinction, even though he’s half white too.
Not that that means a hill of beans one way or the other.
But they’re already using the race card as part of this propaganda war on spending & the debt ceiling.
And we can be sure that they would use it big time, if Articles of Impeachment were ever drawn up.

Obama has already committed obstruction of justice, several times.
But he uses propaganda to intimidate anyone from even thinking about prosecuting him for it.

So if things get even worse…
It is becoming apparent that We the People will have to do something like the Egyptians did recently.
In which case, I would join the Millions of my countrymen in traveling to DC…in our RVs and trailers…and camp out on the street in front of the White House, until the tyrant left the People’s House.

We may just have to do something like that to show that we are fed up and we’re not going to take it anymore on all this spending, as well.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Allen/1694040137 Mike Allen

Obama has been stomping on the Constitution… I totally agree!

Liar-in-chief’s bullshite rhetoric of irresponsible and hostage taking is just that, bullshite rhetoric. He lost 40,000 twitter followers because of it.

“… House Reps keep sending solutions over to the Senate…” Why send more than Cut, Cap, and Balance? Make them vote it down before sending another bill. Force the Senate to vote on it. Debate it and vote on it. If it fails, THEN send them another bill. The cuts in Cut, Cap, and Balance are enough to keep from getting down-graded. Boehner 2.0… not so much. They’re going to down-grade us anyway.

The liar-in-chief has been advised by his attorneys not to go the 14th amandment route. I think he believes them over Bill Clinton. If not, he’ll be impeached quicker than you can say “tar and feathers”.

The house is holding the all the good cards here. There is absolutely no need to show their hand, no need to compromise any more than they are, and no need to send more than one bill to the Senate before the one they already have is voted down.

“… what a childish punk this this president is.” I totally agree again !!!

Anonymous

The Tea Party has always supported Allan West. The left wants a primary and is stirring up mischief as usual.

Anonymous

Sure they have. And if he hadn’t got that support by telling them he wanted what they wanted, he couldn’t have won a race for Mayor. Lets look back at all those tough talking speeches he made to them about changing government and stopping Obama from ruining this country. Post me a link to the ones that he said Obamacare was worth funding..like he voted to do, show me the one where he said giving MILLIONS to blacks that have never planted anything and couldn’t grow a dandelion in the Pigford scam was something he would vote for. Show e the one where he said he would “get his ass in line” and be just another Politician serving himself.

Anonymous

I am not prepared to cut Allen West off my list of desirable politicians yet. I want to give it some time and see how he and the other politicians vote over time before making a final decision.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q3RPUPZS76ZUEVIMQSAN2IZDV4 Anonymous

I think that people were upset with West because of the Pigford settlement; then with his vote for the Boehner plan this just added more fuel to the fire for some people.

http://twitter.com/Super_Sachiko Jasmine Clark

i hate how people keep bringing up the pigford thing. HE ADMITTED HE MADE A MISTAKE. he wasn’t careful. but people jumped to conclusions. people will label any politician a traitor and establishment when a politician disagrees with ONE THING they wanted. people are looking for a perfect politician who will always agree with them and never mess up. it won’t happen.

Anonymous

Consider Obama’s re-election cemented!
Anonymous

Consider Obama’s re-election cemented!
http://www.sheetanchor.org Anonymous

Unfortunately, West by virtue of this vote, raised uncertainty about his committment to stand firm for conservatism. A former soldier explained that West, based upon his military background, allowed loyalty to the organization, in this case the House leadership, be the supeseding factor determining his vote on Boehner’s bill. In other words, he explained that in the Army, loyalty to the organization is the most salient factor in decision-making. In short, you take care of the Army, and the Army will take care of you.

This seems reasonable, especially since in an interview with Neil Cavuto, West, in fact, mentioned his military training as guiding his decision to vote for the bill. The former soldier also asserted that West essentially does not yet understand the different realm in which he is now operating, meaning that, unlike in the Army where you are loyal to your leadership, in the Congress, although you have leadership, your loyaty must first be to your constituents and their interests. He said, not to worry, that West will make the mental transition. Nonetheless, this was very disappointing, and even demoralizing for some, perhaps many, who believed in West. Consequently, he may have lost some enthusiastic support among people who respected him. He would probably be wise to recognize this, and make an effort to restore confidence among such people.

Sardaukar’s Pitbull

You know, when you only control one branch of the government (i.e. the House), you’re not going to get everything you want or desire when making deals with the Senate and the Executive. I think some pragmatism is in order here! I’m not thrilled with West’s vote, either. But, I wasn’t thrilled by the fact that the GOP didn’t rally around Ryan’s plan and sell it to the public. It’s time for the GOP to give Barry the finger!

BTW, I’m not ready to kick West to the curb over his vote with Boehner. We’ll never really clean this mess up until we get the W.H. and the Senate back.
Anonymous

Sardaukar’s Pitbull

Bill Clinton had to submit a budget five times to Congress! The alleged POTUS has not passed a budget since entering office, as we well know. This is an abrogation of the POTUS’s responsibility and a violation of the Budget Act. Our alleged POTUS seems to flout any law or Constitutional requirement with reckless abandon for the express purpose of furthering his Marxist Utopian vision for America.

I don’t think the Republicans should do chit right now! The GOP should give the alleged POTUS the finger and walk out! If the alleged POTUS forces them to stay, sit there and play cards and give Barry the finger! It’s the responsibility of the POTUS to submit a budget to Congress! THE GOP DOESN’T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING RIGHT NOW,! Audaciousness is required, in my humble opinion! It’s the only thing leftist, malcontent misfits like Barry and the MSM seem to understand!

The GOP is starting to argue amongst themselves–just what Barry wants! So many Republican plans have been offered that the public is now confused. The alleged POTUS and the Dems are sitting on their hands doing nothing, while the Republicans do all the heavy-lifting, and run around like chickens with their heads cut off–trying to figure out what to do next! STOP IT! I’ve got to admit, I think the alleged POTUS is snickering to himself right now, with Valerie Jarret patting Barry’s back.

Herman Cain had a good point in regards to this matter: The Republicans should’ve rallied behind Ryan’s plan and sold it to the public. We’re never going to win over the liberal MSM and the hardcore leftist radicals. It’s time for audacity per Gen. George S. Patton, Jr.! It’s time for the Republican leadership to familiarize themselves thoroughly with Alinsky’s Power Tactics and “Hegelian dialectics,” since these are the methods being employed against the GOP and the Tea Party by the progressives and their Marxist/Maoist cohorts.
http://twitter.com/Super_Sachiko Jasmine Clark

good. i was upset because i have seen several people on the internet want to primary allen west (and some others.) but i have also seen a few people that say what levin said, that they disagree with west but don’t want to primary him.

it angers me that people are calling west a traitor, RINO, corrupted by washingtion, coward, caving, establishment, etc!! just because he disagrees with you on the best strategy to go about doing things, doesn’t mean he doesn’t care about tea party/ conservative principles anymore. so there’s no need to primary him. he’s a great guy.

i hope when palin mentioned primarying people in her fb note, she didn’t mean west. palin/west has been my dream ticket for a while now and i don’t want to see it go up in smoke!! *sob*

(for the record: i actually agreed with west, disagree with levin, over support of the boehner bill!! just saying)

Anonymous

Jasmine. Palin has certainly NOT had Allen West on her mind when mentioning the possibility of primaring some politicians.

However, she had certainly Boehner on her mind and others who had immediately began betraying the conservative cause by joining RINOS, like Noem, for example.

We all understand very well how heart wrenching it must have been for Allen to join Boehner in that particular instance.

Those are phony conservatives or some rabid altra-conservatives who are looking for any pretext to discredit those noble folks who have to make tough decision in the most extreme and confusin situations.

Those are the same people who are still trying to discredit Sarah fo giving her support to McCain even if it is no clear that it is McCain who is betraying Sarah.

As you have noticed yourself, nobody is perfect.

http://twitter.com/Super_Sachiko Jasmine Clark

some people are looking for a perfect politician who will never ever do one thing that they disagree with. if the politician does one thing “wrong,” people will jump all over them, think of them as a corrupt traitor, won’t want to trust them anymore. you’re never going to find a perfect politician, or person in general. so don’t jump all over someone the second they do one thing you disagree with. that’s the one thing i don’t like about the tea party. and i consider myself a tea partier too. but so many in the tea party throw “RINO” around so much that they don’t even think about it anymore. they just toss it around to anyone they disagree with. i use “RINO” sometimes too but i think carefully before i call someone that. so i don’t use it often.
http://twitter.com/Super_Sachiko Jasmine Clark

some people are looking for a perfect politician who will never ever do one thing that they disagree with. if the politician does one thing “wrong,” people will jump all over them, think of them as a corrupt traitor, won’t want to trust them anymore. you’re never going to find a perfect politician, or person in general. so don’t jump all over someone the second they do one thing you disagree with. that’s the one thing i don’t like about the tea party. and i consider myself a tea partier too. but so many in the tea party throw “RINO” around so much that they don’t even think about it anymore. they just toss it around to anyone they disagree with. i use “RINO” sometimes too but i think carefully before i call someone that. so i don’t use it often.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OJ3NJSXLSJCUY64Q4CTOZLCMUI John

Lecture West not us!!
We don’t appreciate the McCain attack calling us Schizoid!
Where the He%% did that come from.
Is that how he going to treat people who support him.
Don’t talk DOWN to us! We have a president doing that EVERY day!

Levin defends Allen West over threat of primary

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