The Right Scoop
Then why the "love it or leave it" response? Why imply that anyone who dislikes the pledge of allegiance dislikes this country, is somehow anti-American, and should basically leave?
My concern with the Pledge of Allegiance is to what you are pledging allegiance: the State. To speak against communism and socialism while pledging your allegiance to the State spills over with hypocrisy, as that is to what communists and socialists pledge allegiance, either to a State or to a particular party.
I invite you to read my blog (in particular the posts here and here) to find out that while I want to get rid of the pledge of allegiance, I want to replace it with a declaration of allegiance to something that transcends the republic and the State: the Constitution. Jehovah's Witnesses sued to have laws requiring the recitation of the pledge vacated, calling the pledge "idolatry", and in 1943 the Supreme Court declared that you cannot require students to recite the pledge of allegiance.
And at the same time, I do not want anyone reciting the pledge that does not understand it. Do you really think 5 year-olds understand what they are saying when they recite the pledge of allegiance?
Ask yourself this: why are naturalized citizens required by Federal regulation to declare their allegiance to the Constitution along with a promise to support and defend it, while natural-born citizens pledge allegiance "to the Flag of the United States of America and to the republic"? Does nothing seem off about that to you?
Rather strange that you're basically saying that we should take the country for however it currently is rather than trying to make it better -- the "love it or leave it" mentality. Perhaps it's you who should get out of the US and go to a country where things have stayed relatively the same for centuries or longer.
One good thing about freedom- everyone is entitled to and allowed to speak their opinions.
One good thing about freedom- everyone is entitled to and allowed to speak their opinions.
You're gone troll, oh and if you value your freedom of speech, thank a vet when you practice it in the public square.
Call me old fashioned, call me an idiot. Call me whatever you want- but yes I do say the pledge. It's one of the first things I learned to say when I came here. When I say it, I don't think of nazis or anything but gratitude for God blessing me to be able to come to a land which has been the greatest nation on the planet. I think of the men and women who have fought and died, or still fighting for everything the flag represents.
I think of the way of the founding of this nation, and at that time, yes, it was a nation dedicated to God, and the spreading of the Gospel, as said in the Mayflower Compact. I think of the founders who had wisdom because they knew the Bible, even if not all of them agreed on religion.
So yes, I think of the nationalism of the pledge, because while it is made of States and individualism, it is also made up of people who make one nation.
Call me whatever you want- tell me how wrong I am to pledge to a nation, under God, who I believe had His Hand in the formation of this nation, but I think it's a pity that people can't still see the great things that have made America.
Hmm, 1829 is a bit prior to 1919 when the Italian Fascists first used the salute, since you seem to be fond of wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute
I know who and what Bellamy was and who Upham was. Political ideologies aside, the Pledge is in its fifth variation and no where in it do we find anything to do with the ideologies of either man. What you decry as nationalism others see as patriotism. The Pledge is made to the symbol of our Republic (the Flag) and to the ideals it represents, not politicians or a government. By the way Bellamy was actually what was called (at the time) a Christian-Socialist.
Patriotism- a devoted love, support, and defense of one’s country; national loyalty.
Nationalism- 1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a sentiment based on common cultural characteristics that binds a population and often produces a policy of national independence or separatism
2. loyalty or devotion to one's country; patriotism
3. exaggerated, passionate, or fanatical devotion to a national community.
The two words boil down to the same ideal, it just happens that individuals like yourself choose to corrupt the definition of the word and then bandy the word nationalism about like it was a profanity. I took another oath as well, I took it freely, proudly and without hesitation or reservation (like many others) when I enlisted in the Armed Forces, and took my place on the wall in defense of my fellow countrymen (and women). I am proud of my place in my family's unbroken line of service to the people of this country that dates back to the beginnings of the American Revolution. I still hold to that oath even though I no longer wear the uniform, there is no "opt out" clause or rescinding ceremony at discharge. There was only a personal amending, as I no longer wear the uniform there are no "superior officers" left to obey save one, and it sure as hell isn't the President. I see no "horrible linage" of the pledge, the Star Spangled Banner was written by a lawyer, but when it is played or sung I still rise to my feet and show the appropriate respect, it matters not to me who wrote it and what that person's profession or political beliefs were. In closing, if you do not believe that the ideals our Republic was founded upon, if you believe it is too late to save her, then shut the hell up and get out of the faces of those of us who have not now nor will ever surrender this cause.
VG--The pledge is a reminder and not the law of the land. But I think trying to eliminate it is just one more step from the Liberal playbook towards eliminating the all encompassing document that IS the Law of the Land.
I love Red Skelton and get teary eyed every time I see this. Something about the combination of such a loving, gentle, giving soul and patriotism I suppose.
Yes, let's not brainwash our children to believe that the symbol of the US is a reminder of the liberty it stands for; of the men and women who have worked hard and sacrificed to keep this country free; of the rich life we all enjoy and the rest of the world envies.
Heaven forbid they have to think about that for 2 minutes a day!
In what way, form or fashion does it actually do what you just claimed? Think about the actual words of the pledge for a second...AND the fact that these are SMALL CHILDREN who don't understand American history and won't until long after they don't have to say it anymore in public school.
"I pledge allegience to the flag..." The flag is just a piece of cloth regardless of what nation it represents.
"...and to the Republic for which it stands..." How is this not just nationalism? It's not pledging to any ideas at all...but just the nation.
"One nation under God..." wasn't even in the original pledge, but was added later in 1954.
"...indivisible with liberty and justice for all..." Public schools do not teach these concepts, so these kids really don't even know what they're saying. It's simply pledging to a government they don't understand and with "liberty and justice" which are not aspects promoted by government at all anyway.
You are being disingenuous, pretending as if none of us were small children. We all said the pledge. I was a boy scout and learned what we were saying quite early on. I remember distinctly reciting the pledge several times as a child as young as 7 years old and I remember exactly what I believed it meant at those times.
You don't get to tell me what I believed or knew or what all other children of this country do or don't. It's obvious from your posts that you aren't a fan of our country. Witness, "I won't send my kids to public school," or " 'liberty and justice' which are not aspects promoted by government."
That's a sad and jaded point of view and I reject your teachings and statements.
I don't really care either way if it stays or it goes since I have no intention of sending my daughter to public schools. The pledge of allegiance really is just nationalist brainwashing from the get-go. These kids don't even know what the heck they're saying. Read into your history on this before you go freaking out. The Bellamy salute ring a bell to anyone? Same guy who first did the salute Nazis used is the same one who originally created the pledge...which also did NOT ORIGINALLY have the words "under God" in it. Just some food for thought.
Considering the "Bellamy Salute" was first demonstrated in 1892 and was actually not created by Bellamy, but by a man by the name of James B. Upham. The salute was latter appropriated by the Italian Fascist party in 1919, who believed it to be the salute used by the Roman Legions due to its depiction in a piece of classical art from the late 1700's, the salute was also depicted in at least three other pieces of neoclassical art. The Nazis latter "borrowed" the salute and made it their own (Hitler admitted to adopting it from the Italians in his own writings) in the end Congress did away with the salute by amending the US Flag Code in 1942, because of the use of a similar salute by the Nazis. Your point is a non-point, intended only to defame the pledge and the concept it represents in committing oneself to an ideal.
Yes, pretty much everyone here has been aware of the fact that the words "under God" were inserted into the Pledge during the Eisenhower administration as a rejection of the Atheistic Communist dogma of the USSR. In fact, that was the fourth time the Pledge had been changed, the original was quite short and simple and it was as follows:
I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. History is quite a bit more complex than your pathetic attempts to over-simplify and whitewash it until fits into the niche of your worldview is what as known as propaganda. It may hold up with your Anarchist compatriots but it does not hold up to the facts. To quote a well known former Mayor of Carmel, "You're beginning to bore the hell out of me".
Per Orange Shaman: "I don't care either way, but it's irrelivent as far as I'm concerned and here's a list of reasons why I don't like it and don't like America. Just saying..."
Wow. Way to enumerate the actual misinterpretation. Oh, wait, you left that off, didn't you.
Perhaps you don't recall writing, "The pledge of allegiance really is just nationalist brainwashing from the get-go. These kids don't even know what the heck they're saying."
Tell me how that isn't dismissive? And that was just part of your complaint.
Par for the course with that state.. Thanks Mitt for leaving it in such disarray that people are objecting to the Unites States Flag.
Par for the course with that state.. Thanks Mitt for leaving it in such disarray that people are objecting to the Unites States Flag.
I agree with the teacher who said there is historical significance to saying the Pledge. Does this group of jackwagons ever think that perhaps if kids learned true American History, and even about the pledge, that they wouldn't be just repeating a "rote ritualism".
I've got a simple little book Called the Pledge of Allegiance, put out by Scholatic that explains the pledge and why it is said. I taught it to my son and he understands it. To think that this is unpatriotic or "McArthyism" is, for this AmericanborninCanada one of the most idiotic statements I've ever heard.
Which part is disagreeable to these people? Promising to be loyal to our country and to the republican form of government? Well, yeah, I guess if you're a commie, that could be difficult, especially if you hate your country.
Indivisible, and under God? Well, yeah, when you're wanting to create class and race warfare, I guess this could be opposite of your desires, and of course the God thing doesn't work for you.
Could be the liberty and justice for all thing? But of course that is something every true commie claims to want, so it can't be that.
These people need to go away if they don't appreciate America.
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