The Right Scoop
This is going to go down just like it did under Reagan. The 'amnesty' part will be immediately put into effect and the 'border security' part will never happen.
We must secure our border before any laws are passed that effect illegal immigrants. Obama has no intention of enforcing any laws that secure our border... so this is an exercise in futility. We could pass a law that would streamline the process for LEGAL immigration NOW! That would be a very smart move!!!
'Legal Immigrants' tend to be from Europe and Asia and may not toe the party line. ;-)
The problem in all of this in my view, is that Obama and by extension the Democrats are setting up this argument to make it that the craggy, mean old White Republicans, and Conservatives, want to keep the United States exclusive, and white. They dont want immigrants.
In addition, we are all nasty, uncaring- dont want anyone to have healthcare, an education, or even a roof over their head.
He will set the stage and the minions of his administration, and the media will get their daily talking points and with each memo reinforce his position.
The Republicans and Conservatives have GOT to move toward a reasonable and sensible LEGAL alternative to reach out and welcome immigrants to our Melting Pot. This has to be on the front burner.
Allen West, Sen Tim Scott and others are doing just that! And they are doing it by showing how doing the right things instead of living on gov't handouts is the true American Dream and life of freedom.
The problem in all of this in my view, is that Obama and by extension the Democrats are setting up this argument to make it that the craggy, mean old White Republicans, and Conservatives, want to keep the United States exclusive, and white. They dont want immigrants.
In addition, we are all nasty, uncaring- dont want anyone to have healthcare, an education, or even a roof over their head.
He will set the stage and the minions of his administration, and the media will get their daily talking points and with each memo reinforce his position.
The Republicans and Conservatives have GOT to move toward a reasonable and sensible alternative to reach out and welcome immigrants to our Melting Pot. This has to be on the front burner.
O couldnt find packed stadiums so he had to give a speech at a high school on immigration. Bet half the kids were cheering cause they got out of class.
You hear different versions of this proposal. Rubio says one and McCaiin, Schumer say another. Is it just heresay or is there a bill written? If its not I would like to see whats written before i pass judgement.
Also, what if this was all just a plan to goad O to proposing his proposal and if he kills it blame him for ruining the bipartisan bill. That depends if they are following a strategy..
They don't care about the 23 million Americans out of work because they believe those people are already enrolled in (victims to) the Nanny State. They think those victims will just continue voting for their welfare and freebies and so they are "in the bag". They want more and more people in their bag, hence they now focus on the illegals.
Illegals will get a check from the IRS:
"many would not owe back income tax because they didn't make enough money. They could even be eligible for refunds."
This is a lose-lose(-lose) situation for Republicans, and I could not agree more with Michelle. Here's how I see it in a nutshell:
1. It's Amnesty.
2. It's divisive to our party.
3. It's portraying us as intolerant.
4. This is worse than amnesty for latinos, it's an open gate for muslim immigration.
5. Rubio is a useful tool for the left because Obama is going to win those voters anyway.
Amplification on my points above.
1. If it was called Amesty nobody would buy this. A pathway to citizenship, like so many terms used, is amnesty. Make no mistake. Rubio is lying and twisting words to suit his needs. He and his supporters are lecturing us on what amnesty is by parsing the language.
2. It divides our party. Look at all the outrage and fallout already. The more time this takes away from other problems, the worse our party will be off. We have a debt crisis, unemployment, a treasonous and unconstitutional presidency, benghazi and fast and furious muders... This is a country-club issue in comparison, and again, a gift to the Dems. The longer we spend arguing over this nonsense over the airwaves and radio, the more time the left avoids answering to the problems of the day. This is a grand distraction.
3. It perpetuates a false narrative that the Republican Party is intolerant. The GOP has done that already through Colin Powell (shuck and jive is racist), Jeb Bush (we can no longer be the party of the white guy), Condoleeza Rice (GoP must stop turning off large segments of the population), and Rand Paul (we have to adapt and evolve ~ whatever that means.)
4. Immigration reform expands the Democratic voting block. Grover Norquist whose wife is Muslim supports the plan because he is in favor of muslim immigration to the states. Is he a plant of the GOP at this point? idk. He happens to be in favor of Puerto Rico becoming a 51st state as well. All the immigrants I come in contact with think the Republicans are Dorks and prefer OBama anyway because he gives more. Why are we competing with theM?. Marco thinks in all his self-unawareness that he IS the Republican rising star that is to save the party and win 2016. Gives new meaning to the DREAM ACT.
5. Hispanic VOTERS DO NOT VOTE ON IMMIGRATION. Obama is going to give illegals amnesty anyway. Pandering is foolish. THey prefer the left's goodies anyway and think our side is a bunch of dorky men. Who can blame them. The media and the left always pick the winners and the losers and Rubio is their useful idiot right now. Why isnt more being said about this?
My question is.. how do we get GOP voters, Mark Levin, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity to see what is going on, and to not fall into this laid-out trap that is setting us up
to fail YET again! It's so frustrating
The immigrants I know don't support Republicans because we do a crap job at articulating our principles and controlling the narrative. Those are things Rubio is good at.
PS You don't sound credible when you call Rubio a liar and insult Rand Paul with out even understanding what he was saying.
She's Cuban from South Miami. She knows how PO'd the Cubans are with Marco and Jeb Bush and YOU are questioning HER!
What cheek!
The Republicans long ago abandoned the core principles of the Constitution, limited government, secure borders, and national sovereignty. They cannot articulate principles because they don't have them anymore. They are political animals. Including Rubio.
The illegal community we worked with for years here in NC does not give a crap about Republican or Democrat.They would not even come close to understanding even the most simplistic "principle" of a political party, let alone this issue. But they are not fools. They all laughed at us, took our medical services, food and money, and told us they want Obama because he is is going to give them amnesty. That is it. Nothing else. Amnesty. They know the word in English. They use the word. "Obama, Amnesty".
Pretty boy just wants them to start saying "Rubio, Amnesty" for 2016.
DUH! I detect gopE spin! Shame.
"This amnesty will grant citizenship to only 1.1 to 1.3 million illegal
aliens... We will secure the borders henceforth... We will never again
bring forward another amnesty bill like this."
–Ted Kennedy on Simpson-Mazzoli, 1986
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again
and expecting a different result.
It makes no sense to write a legislative proposal that confers unwarranted benefits on the condition of stepped up law enforcement. If the Republican senators are serious, they should just call for enforcement of already enacted laws. They should tell Democrats, “Show us over the next few years that enforcement is effective and that the government’s commitment to it is permanent; then we can talk about legislation to legalize the presence of the remaining illegal immigrant population.” The way you prioritize enforcement is … to prioritize enforcement, not to talk about enforcement you can’t deliver in a wayward deal that concretely rewards lawlessness. And in the meantime, if it would help our economy to allow more immigration of workers to fill needs that aren’t being met, by all means increase the availability of visas for those categories of workers — as dramatically as necessary. This will illustrate that Republicans are not anti-immigrant — the “false argument” that animates Sen. Rubio, as he told Rush. It is a slander that sticks because of the GOP’s inadequate response to the Left’s demagoguery, not because of bad policies.
Your anecdotal stories I have no doubt are true but historically the stats have not been moved amnesty. And in this bill these people wouldn't be able to vote for years and years and they would be cut off from government assistance and would have to pay taxes. That's the best way I know to make someone a conservative :)
I know for a fact. All who we provided services to. All they care about in US politics is Amnesty. Absolutely.
Once they get the amnesty they will vote for whoever gives them more stuff. Rubio or whoever. The vast majority will then vote for the Progressive once they get citizenship.
The islamists here illegally are different. They came for a far different reason. We did not work with them. They pay for their own medical care. Those are the ones you really need to worry about in this amnesty bill.
LOL you really think all those illegals you worked with will be singing Rubio's praise when they realize he wants to cut off all their government assistance? Also they can't vote and stats show that legal hispanics don't vote based on immigration issues anyway. So your argument is rendered invalid.
They don't support Republicans because they just want you to abide by the law. That's it. We ask that from everybody else.
Hispanics agree with almost everything Republicans stand for. Knowing that, why wouldn't they support a party they agree with? Don't say its lack of communication by the right. The illegals know what they are. Illegals just want a piece of that free ride.
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough for you. Hispanics do NOT vote on Immigration Reform, and it is because they want to see charismatic leaders with a Conservative message like you said. Hispanics are just like any other voting block, and that is what they are thirsting for. Our GOP leaders are heck bent on pushing a narrative that we do not identify with because they, and Rubio, are pushing a liberal progressive big government agenda. YOu can't have it both ways.. say you are a Conservative and push big government programs such as this. HOw are we ever going to pay for this?
Just to add to that, Rubio is articulate. Big WhooP. So is President Obama. We cannot give Rubio a pass on Amnesty. THat's okay, they are in damage control mode as the true Conservatives in our base are well aware of what is going on.
Finally, no, I did not insult Rand Paul. I simply stated we do not know what he means by the party having to evolve and adapt. More bipartisanship will not solve our problems.
There is nothing articulate and charismatic about Rubio. He has done nothing. All he does is talk.
We intend to dump him in Florida.
Suggest you recruit him to move to your state.
Good-bye anchor baby. We don't owe you anything. I hear Mother Jones calling you and your illegal alien friends home for din-din.
What is your evidence for that? I'm gonna need more than just your opinion to accept that as truth.
I will admit to being a schmuck. In the passion of the 2010 elections I geared up heavily on phone dialers, and contributing as much money as I could to Rubio and Scott Brown. I do not live in either state.
I learned a lot and now see the true colors of both men. I think Rubio disappointed the most. I let myself believe, coming from immigrant parents like he did and because my kids are part Cuban, that I had much in common with him. He does not have any conservative or Constitutional principles. He actually has no principles, except political ambition and power.
I have opened my eyes. The man is slick - and big government. Owned.
Rubio is not like the establishment GOP. Neither is Rand Paul or Ted Cruz or several other members of congress. The GOP gets away with what it does because we have an uniformed electorate that votes idiots like John Beohner and Lindsey Graham into office. You start to sound very conspiratorial when you claim that they've all sold their souls. That kind of talk hurts us and its not way to treat those few we have in congress who are genuine. Just because Rubio proposed something you don't like doesn't make him a sellout and you have no evidence to support that. I note that you ignored my question about Rubio's plan being big government. It's not. It's fine to disagree with his plan. We can argue that. Please don't make wild claims that you are unable to support.
All I can say is, wake up. The GOP gets away with what it does because VOTERS lie to themselves. No matter what you mention about each, Rand or Rubio, the truth about them doesn't change. YOu just have to adapt to the reality of who they are and why they do what they do.
Rubio is blindly ambitious. This is the target of exploitation because he can be easily fooled into thinking, like he does now, erroneously so, too, that he IS the "rising star" of the Republican Party.
Look a little deeper. It took me time. I didn't realize this overnight. It just has to be said. Once you know the truth, it's not whether you're politically for or against the person. YOu have to have an axis of TRUTH that guides you so that these candidates best represent what you and I stand for. Neither one is doing it. If they did, you wouldn't support them.
I didn't say hispanics voted on immigration because I know they don't. But thanks for making that extra clear. What about Rubio's plan is big government and what about any alternative plan would use smaller government? We have 11 million illegals. It a big problem. It will have a big solution whether its securing the border or mass deportation or whatever you like. I haven't heard of a solution that doesn't include more government involvement.
Yeah and look what Obama has accomplished for his own party. Too bad he's on the dark side. Rubio is even more articulate and charismatic than Obama and he's on our side. He could do amazing things for the conservative movement and spread truth like we haven't seen since Ronald Regan.
I know what Rand Paul meant. I know he's not for compromise and that's not what he was saying. He was saying that we have to change the way we message because it is outdated, it doesn't work and it hurts us.
I propose a hunting season on illegals, just like we do to keep the deer population down. You buy a hunting permit, with a 5 illegal immigrant limit, from Oct 1 through Dec 1 is illegal immigrant hunting season.
I'd bag my limit every year. Wonder how long it would take the rest of them to di di mau back home.
I like the idea of requiring food stamp recipients to bring 10 illegals with them to collect next months' stamps. The illegals will be turned in and food stamp issuance would be way down :)
DNC wants those with IQ below 80....European intelligentsia with IQ high above average 100 is waiting for decades to immigrate here...and waiting...and waiting
1) The more educated you are the more likely you are to be liberal. The don't measure your IQ they look at your education level.
2) Who are we to pick and choose who gets to immigrate. That's certainly not in line with what the founders wanted. America is place where anyone (who doesn't have a criminal background) can come to make a better life for themselves.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
Who are we to pick and choose who gets to immigrate.If not we, who then?
.
America is place where anyone (who doesn't have a criminal background) can come to make a better life for themselves.That has never been the case until we ignorant voters let our government be taken over by progressives and globalists. My family immigrated here. Through Ellis Island. The only ones that got to Ellis, were the ones who got past the screening process before boarding the ship (health, education, ability to work, skills, trades, education etc) . The ones that got off Ellis Island got temporary permits and had to live clean, work hard, and prove their worth before they were naturalized.
What exactly is different from what you want, and open borders?
So you feel the only requirement is a clean background check, and that we should place no controls on the volume of immigrants, or the speed at which we process the ones who pass?
Such a model would immediately collapse any naiton that implemented it.
Congratulations you have earned immediate entry to the Soros-Hussein Post-American Policy Institute.
Does not matter if we think it is petty, serious, forgivable, or not. It is not ideological. The politicians push this demagogic nonsense to distract us.
The only aspect of these foreigners violating Federal Law that matters to the politicians, is that their presence on US soil makes them ineligible for a residency or visa.
Which means they only way to secure the needed Progressive voting block, enmass, is with Amnesty.
If you'll humor me, more can be understood by trying to answer this.... Why the big debate? Why does Hussein feel he has to go through Congress when he could just order INS to start processing them all today? It has not stopped him before.
What is one of those illegal aliens sexually assaulted you? Is that a crime? What is a couple of them worked in the day care where your children went and sexually molested them. Is that a crime? What is several of those illegal aliens starting burning the apts where you live. Is that a crime?
Well we have a serious ideological difference. I think it's possible for someone to have messed up one, possibly more times, in their life and still be a good and decent person. Because I'm a christian and I understand we are all sinners and we are not defined by every single thing we've ever done wrong but by the content of our character as we are now. Frankly I am shocked you won't even acknowledge that. I stole gum once when I was growing up (and have done much worse since then) but it doesn't mean I can never achieve the status of good and decent person in my lifetime.
I don't acknowledge that. I wish you'd understand that they stole to get here. They stole the right of someone coming here the LEGAL way. The LAW is the LAW whether they like it or not and they BROKE it.
I'm done on this.
Salvation is not comparable to immigration.
If you come to America illegally and don't steal then you are not a thief. You are just an illegal immigrant. (I consider welfare stealing if you've never paid into the system)
I never claimed that they were completely innocent and should walk completely free as your court analogy implies.
We have contributed to this problem as much as they have and that should be acknowledged just as frequently as illegals breaking of immigration laws is.
It is possible to be a good and decent person and also an illegal immigrant. I wish you would acknowledge that.
James 4:11
Brothers, do not slander one another.
Good luck with that argument if you were in a court of law.
"I'm sorry your honor. I really am a good and honest person. I just didn't like that little itty bitty law. Other than that, I'm a good person."
Yeah, that'll work.
Un Christian huh?
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
John 10
As I've said before I do not equate illegal immigration with other crimes. Especially because of the state of our current immigration system. I specifically say this because I know several illegal immigrants who are decent, good, honorable, America loving, God fearing individuals. It is unchristian and wrong to demonize them as criminals across the board.
Why do you need to control the speed and volume? Mass legal immigration had done us a load of good over the years. I can't see any problem with it and until I do, I don't think we need to control it. I think restricting it is un-American.
if they came here illegally then no, they're not law abiding. Hence the word ILlegal
I asked her that the other day Conniption. She didn't like it- but fails to see that it's the same damn thing on a larger scale.
So what other requirement do you propose, besides a clean criminal background check, to control the speed and volume of immigrants?
Have you read any of my comments or even looked at Rubio's bill? Your comment is so terribly dishonest and full of strawmen. We both support cutting off all assistance to illegals. If a couple dozen legal immigrants moved in next door and had to work to provide for themselves they would become producers and consumers and grow the economy and we'd all be better off. Obviously I don't want more people coming here to be on welfare. Idk why you'd even make that point.
So, have you taken a couple of dozen illegal immigrants into your home and fed, clothed, provided cars, medical care for them? Would it put you into financial ruin?
Right now, the US spends twice as much money every month than is coming in.
Right now there are 350,000 new unemployment claims and 11,000 food stamp applications every week.
The US can't afford to take in more people until our current population and economy are working.
Unfair and inaccurate generalization. I know those who are. It's this kind of absolutest ignorant talk that hurts us.
Illegals are a national security and an economic threat. We are at a place where we have to recover our economy. These people are invaders, not imigrants or applicants.
They are not law abiding, law respecting people.
With the 1965 Act, through chain migration, the immigrants themselves started getting to choose who comes here. That is how the one worlders erase our borders, and they have been successful.
1) That is a gross exaggeration. I also have never suggested immigration be instantaneous so that's a strawman anyway.
2) Our nation would not collapse. We are nation of immigrants and we have plenty of room to accept more. It would actually help us grow the economy since under my ideal plan and Rubio's plan they wouldn't be allowed any government assistance. And instead of coming illegally we'll have legal immigrants who will actually pay taxes as well.
If the only requirement to gain US citizen ship was a clean criminal background check, we would have half a billion new citizens here in one month. The nation would collapse the next month. That is open borders.
No one. Just like we don't pick and choose who gets rights. The only people who got turned away from Ellis island were those who failed the health exam and were suspected of having a mental illness. They were often referenced to local churches and private support groups that would help them get established. Of course they had to work hard. They couldn't survive otherwise because the government didn't help them. That is as it should be. We shouldn't turn some away in favor of those who have more education. Both ought to be able to come.
You'd have to define what open borders means to you. At this point I think you know how I would like to see the legal immigration system to work.
Comment Policy: Please read our new comment policy before making a comment. In short, please be respectful of others and do not engage in personal attacks. Otherwise we will revoke your comment privileges.