The Right Scoop
It's a full assault, from outside and within. Combine this with the Trayvon Martin incident, as they attempt to knock down "Stand Your Ground" law, which will soon be followed by "The Castle Doctrine", and other similar legislation. While we remain the dutiful servants to the politicians and provide our taxes to enable special interests, we are becoming the slaves to these administrations.
No, Bill. They have no shame. I keep asking when sinking too low actually becomes too low, only to realize that there's no bottom there - it just keeps going down.
MSM have become willing propagandists. The Left has been overthrown by radicals and Marxists. And we have people on our side screaming that they won't vote these lunatics out of office because our candidate is not all they'd like him to be.
As disgusted as I am with the media for their silent complicity with F&F, I am even more disgusted that every single Democrat member of the House Oversight Committee apparently cares more about party unity than the deaths of 300+ people. They should be roundly criticized and held to task for their overt support of murder.
An excellent monolog by Mr Whittle as usual, especially insightful. But it gripes my ass every time I hear that F&F provided US assault weapons to "people South of the Border". I want to see exactly what was made available to the cartels...real assault weapons, OR ordinary, off the shelf legal firearms...for sale by any gun dealer in the US, which the DOJ may be trying to pass off as illegal assault weapons to gin up excitement about stronger anti-gun laws?
The Assault Weapons Ban banned the sale of wannabe assault weapons...emasculated AK47's and AR 15's and uncounted other similarly treated real assault weapon. How's that you ask? An authentic assault weapon is capable of AUTOMATIC fire...PULL THE TRIGGER & it shoots as long as you hold the trigger. A shoulder fired machine gun, if you will. Absolutely NO automatic weapon has been for sale to the general public since the ban in 1934, unless you jump through innumerable paper hoops with the Treasury Department to get a permit to have one. Get the picture...is this what we (the US gun dealers) were supposed to be providing the cartels? You telling me they were getting all wet over getting our legal "assault weapons", the semi-automatic wannabe's... the pull the trigger & shoot once, pull the trigger again & and shoot one more..etc. What were we really selling the cartels? And if they were the real assault weapons, the machine guns, where were the US dealers getting them? I would double-damn guarantee that NO licensed US gun dealer had any automatic weapons squirreled away in a back room, just waiting for someone to drop in, wanting to buy one. UNLESS he was told to take delivery of what was being sent to him by Uncle Sam. If that's the case, Holder should have his bag slit and his leg run through it, along with everyone else in on that great idea.
One document showing weapons traced in Feb. 2010 memo -- http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/Grassley_201103_page24.pdf?tag=contentMain;contentBody
May find other interesting details as well here: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20115038-10391695.html You can see the agent's statements and other relevant info and memos. Hope this helps, I am curious what your opinion is on this issue after you review the documents. :)
"this issue" being the actual type of weapons being discussed. The CBS news report didn't clear anything up, and was one of the earliest reports, wasn't it? The redacted report names the actual weapons confiscated in a raid and where purchased, which I used to get a better description of the weapons from a Google search.
My opinion on F&F isn't formed on these preliminary reports. All they did was pique my interest in the followup to follow. Those weapons described were but two of ? many more, but are probably indicative of what was actually "moved"...knock-offs of the real things.
I had enough faith in the "old" ATF that any fully automatic weapon loose in the public was soon to be run to ground by them from reports received from the public about either their existence, or stories of the same or possibility of such. Those people were relentless, where automatic firearms were concerned. Which seemed to have carried over to this new generation of agents, or at least partly so.
As to the these weapons, it may be as I suspected... remanufactured by legitimate (ostensibly) companies of 'used' parts from the real weapons, MINUS the part that makes these weapons "desirable", that which makes them fully automatic, machine gun-like, assault weapons, not just 'wanna-be look-alikes'...pull the trigger and it fires until you let off on the trigger or run out of ammunition. Whether or not these emasculated weapons can be restored to full function by remodification and replacement of the missing parts, or not, remains unanswered. If not, I can only imagine the "chagrin" of the new owners when they discover the impotency of their macho AK when it can't perform up to full "expectations" of full automatic, rather than just semi-automatic fire.
It is a consensus among most American males and lots of females, that the other part of the population, who have no congenial regard for firearms, also have a lack of knowledge in that department. In the previous American youth lexicon, the word automatic used with a rifle conjured visions of a .22 rifle that shot at cans, or leaves floating down a river or whatever, as fast as they could pull the trigger. The accurate definition of "semi-automatic rifle" probably didn't sell .22's as well, and was thus relegated to the fine print. But until we were told why our rifle didn't work like the machine guns in the movies, we labored under that delusion. Since that time, we have been increasingly more put off by people who should know better, but continue to foster that delusion for their own unstated reasons. Maybe, as long as the public can be kept thinking we were selling real 'machine guns' to the cartels, there will be more ambivalence towards the stupidity with which that program was conceived and managed, and less so to the Second Amendment.
If we were to discover a neighbor, like Mexico or Canada, were running a similar program within our borders, without bothering to either ask our permission, or even tell us they planned to do so, there would be several levels of consequences and 'other stuff' suggested to come down onto the perpetrators. Or so I would hope.
Thank you for the attempt to help. Expanding my sphere of knowledge on this matter is greatly appreciated...(and needed but not undertaken. Witness Mr Issa's difficulty in garnering much "info" would seem to justify my own personal deficit in that regard). I had not, in fact, seen either of your links before, and was glad to have something 'authentic', identifying a couple weapons as belonging to the F&F cache. But yet today, a newscaster referring to Officer Terry's killing referred again to 'an AK 47', not quite what was listed in that redacted report. Those two weapons were readily available to US gun dealers for sale to the public wishing to have 'replicas' for personal collections.
Further, my apologies for sounding a little overbearing, but it was not directed at you, rather just 'into the ether' for consumption by whomever may partake. You simply happened to be a vehicle for my venting to hitch on to.
As to the rational for this display of law enforcement ineptitude, it has been bantered about that the basis is/was to gin up more distaste for the expression of Second Amendment rights by the gun-owning American public. Sounds 'good', in some circles, but may be yet another example of 'a poor excuse is better than none'. We likely will never see the actual rationale in writing.
I appreciate your reply, as such, I was only attempting to perhaps add a few links where upon you could go further. Sorry that I am not up to many distinctions regarding weapon types, yet I am learning. Further, I can see no other reason for the existence of this program if it was not intended to purposefully lead the purchaser to breaking the law and committing more crimes. Otherwise, why indeed was not Mexico notified and the guns not tracked until picked up at the scene of a crime where many hundreds of people have been murdered. Noting they were only "traced" and not tracked as in the past program by another name which was ended prior to this FF program.
You are right I think to wonder what was botched about this program. What went wrong given its nature?
Shady looking people went to gun dealers who immediately reported that to authorities who told them to sell them all the guns they wanted. Agents tracked some of these people until receiving explicit instructions from their superiors to leave them alone and stop following them. They did so. No attempt was made to stop the guns at the border or to track them in any way.
The actual attack by bad guys that killed our agent was perhaps botched; it was actually led by another agent of our government without coordination with others.
But Fast and Furious went exactly, it seems, according to the instructions of higher ups in the government in the face of anger and consternation by the agents on the scene and the gun dealers.
Agents who complained were treated shabbily and those who ordered them to look away from these activities were promoted.
The only botching I can think of has been in the suppression of information about the program reaching the public. While the criminally abetting networks and major print media have mainly kept quiet about it, Representative Issa and other Congressmen whose responsibility it is to oversee the Department of Justice and related agencies have fortunately kept the subject from oblivion.
I think certain news media may be found guilty as accessories after the fact if they continue to stone wall it, and protect what may well be accessories to murder in Mexico and of I think two US agents.
Can anyone point out a positive purpose to this program? And what exactly was botched?
No they have no shame and they'll do it all over again if they can get away with it. Oh, they DO get away with it, so expect it to happen all over again, only this time they'll try to make sure they don't get caught. Now lets see where is that radar?
Boy oh boy. Oi! That was quite a contrast he Whittled there. Between what the Bush admin. did versus what the demonic duo did. Batman would kick both their asses, and Robin would crotch kick'em with unforgettable accuracy. That's whatchacall, the audacity of ouch. We've got Standard law enforcement versus unchecked arming to hasten subjugation. Sounds a lot like act of war to me. Sounds like communism in the early half of the 20th century too.
Justice would be for people of my brothers color, all the various hues, to realize who the real racists have always been. You know, see the caricature for what it is. A deeply tawdry type thing, with a heaping helping of heinous, heartless, horror propped on top. It'd be nice hearing them singing something like 'true colors'. A few million epiphany's would work right?
Will people willingly follow a lie? How about a lie-er? Why do so many minorities as groups choose to be the lie-ee. They deserve better.
Did you also know that 10 million was spent on Fast and Furious guns from Stimulus slush fund. Think I saw that on IBD article. And in 2008 they ran an article about a representative of "candidate" for president to show support for the FARC terrorists in Nicaragua next to columbia. The computer taken by columbia troops when they killed top FARC guy, showed correspondence with "gringo". think it was the same American congressman's contact that brought "free" Venezuelan oil from the beneficent Hugo Chavez to Chicago's poor. Obama is knee deep in this scandal.
To answer Bill Whittle's question: No they (MSM) have no shame.
No they have no shred of decency.
They are too busy celebrating Watergate's 40th anniversary to notice
300 dead Mexicans and one dead American Agent. Doesn't fit their
hellish 'meme'.
This was an excellent presentation. Clear, concise, and brutally honest, this should be shown on all three networks and save them the bother of putting on their own tired old views of Fast and Furious. I hope Obama and Holder see this. Because they just didn't want to admit a mistake, 300 people are dead, including one American border patrol agent. Shame on Holder and Obama and shame on the mainstream media. This is far, far, worse than Watergate and it may come to a head any day now. And it's about time.
We can only know what occurred because of a young Border Patrolman’s death. Border Patrolman Brian Terry died from one of the very guns that the Obama Regime’s underlings had sold to the gun buyers of the Narcotic Cartels of Mexico, its because of his death that we found out what are own Government was pulling, an overt act of subversion upon our own 2nd Amendment to the Constitution. If he hadn’t of been protecting our borders and us, we would never have known of the assault upon our Rights; he died a hero but can’t even get retribution in our courts of law. There were over 300 Police Officers murdered in Mexico and the United State and none of them can get justice. Come on Mr. President, if your not complicit tell Holder to release any and all documents requested.
ICE Agent Jamie Zapata was murdered in Mexico with F&F guns as well. And F&F was merely the operation run out of the Phoenix Field Division of BATFE. Operation Castaway was run by the Tampa Field Division of BATFE, and shipped weapons to former president Zelaya's supporters in Honduras. HOW MANY OTHER treasonous operations are STILL underway by this Administration and its toadies?
Prez Clinton had granted executive privilege to Holder =>> In 1999, Holder worked in the Clinton DOJ when the president commuted the sentences of 16 convicted Puerto Rico independence terrorists. During his 2009 confirmation hearing, Holder cited Clinton's claim of executive privilege when he refused to explain why the department switched its position on freeing the 16 FALN terrorists. Yet, Clinton also issued a waiver to this executive privilege upon leaving the Oval so Holder could/should have spoken truthfully to those questions during his confirmation (I know - LOL)!
More: http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/holder-360276-obama-administration.html
Thank you for the info. I did not recall this......probably trying to keep my head from exploding. How I loathe these people!
I relate and have bought many rolls of duct tape! For even more in-depth reporting on just who the IG is and her long-time ties with Holder and other questionable deeds during this scandal, American Thinker had a great article covering this topic back in Oct. 2011. -- http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/10/fast_and_furious_in_a_rotten_nutshell.html
Incredible analysis, conclusion and call to action: Bill Whittle - the non-Hollywood version of Andrew Breitbart.
I'm afraid this is only going to get worse and no matter what happens after the election and he is out of office he will pardon all the criminals in his administration; we'll all have a fit, but like our history with our government, there won't be a thing we can do about it.
I don't think that you can pardon conspiracy to murder if you are an accomplice to the crime and it hasn't been adjudicated yet. Eric Holder did that for Marc Rich, gave him a pardon before he was brought to trial but that won't ever happen again, it was criminal then but wasn't pushed. If the Republican's don't know how to get nasty on the murder of 300 police officers then they have to be replaced with those that do. Everyone involved in this crime is a Democrat, the people in Congress who cut the $40 million out of "Stimulus" to pay for the guns, all Democrats and proud Socialists. This was an attempted usurpation of the Constitution, if the Democrats don't help on this they are worthless and all have to be out of elective office. The Constitution is worth fighting for just like it was at its inception.
Dont let the media define the issue. all the names that have been thrown out there have been mudied by the Left, purposely. Gun walking, Gun Running and Fast and Furious. They all have to be explained so you get to see where it went wrong.
Gun running is the act of planting tracers on guns with the purpose of tracing them to buyers and ultimately the dealers you are looking to trap. This method is what Obama has perfected when it comes to catching terrorists. The FBI is getting good at coying home based terrorists into thinking they are terrorists too or dealers willing to sell them explosive materials. In the end, they catch them trying to detonate fake explosives.
This is what Bush was doing with Gun walking. And like Bill says, ATF got permission to do this. Mexico was informed and involved, The guns were traced, and it was ensured that no lives were lost.
F&F was the contrary. The guns were not traced, Mexico was not informed, the purpose was not to catch the criminal but to make someone else the criminal.
Apply this to terrorism, it would be like selling 10 pounds of C4 explosives to alqaeda, allowing them to blow up 10 blocks of southside chicago, and then blaming it on the manufacturers of C4 because they get it from the evil oil companies.
Marisela Morales should demand the extradition of Holder AND Obama to Mexico to face charges of murder and conspiracy to commit murder
Obama not only lied he was a participant in a crime that caused homicides on purpose. Its called a "False Flag" operation and was used most famously by the Nazi and Communist operation against Poland with a casus belli in 1940 which precipitated WW2. Obama and Holder was setting up the 2nd Amendment by using the murders in Mexico as a reason for gun confiscation. The Feinstein Law called "The King Pin Act" was all set up to arrest the gun dealers in the Western States for their participation which was asked for by the Justice Department and the ATF, there was nothing in writing so they would have been convicted and sent to prison for life. We have some real bad hombre's in Government right now.
I have concerns about the gunrunning operations of both the Bush and Obama Administrations that go beyond the Congressional investigation, which I have addressed to the media and congress.
The gun running operations of the Bush Administration were significantly different from those of the Obama Administration. One major difference between the two is that under Bush’s Operation Wide Receiver the Mexican government was working with the US Government; thus the sovereignty of Mexico was respected. It was recently confirmed by the Obama DoJ that President Bush’s AG, Michael Mukasey, did not know about Operation Wide Receiver. That, to me, opens up a few questions. At what level in the DoJ and other government departments do lower level officials in any administration have the power to skirt laws, and as in Fast and Furious (F&F) and other Obama Administration gunrunning operations, permit the violation of the sovereignty of other nations? That alone causes me serious concerns about the distribution of power in our ever growing government.
While Operation Wide Receiver had the cooperation of the Mexican Government, at a minimum the FBI had to be involved to allow the background checks for the weapon’s purchasers to be bypassed. In Fast and Furious both US laws and Mexico’s sovereignty were violated. These violations were performed with the knowledge and cooperation of the FBI, DHS, State Department and even the IRS. If I am to believe AG Holder, he and his deputies were not in the approval loop for F&F. If that is true, we have a government that has renegade elements that can violate our laws and other nations sovereignty with impunity. That is very dangerous and I can envision scenarios where some lower level official's actions could provoke a war.
While the Congressional investigation has centered on the AZ F&F operation there were others by the Obama Administration that have had little public scrutiny. Additionally beyond the questions of who authorized F&F and why, Congress needs to determine at what level can officials authorize such operations and the process. We must not sweep these questions under the carpet.
Williams has seen it as has the rest of the MSM and by ignoring it have become complicit in the operation and are working agains the People, Country and Constitution. They are apparacheki of the Regime, they are more like the so called reporters of Pravda and Izvestia than real newsmen; they are propagandists for the fledging dictator.
The MSM is and has been enabling and abetting this administrations malfeasance.
They are part of the problem, a major part of the problem and one of the main reasons we are on a steady march towards Marxism.
I shared this link on Facebook for all my liberal friends to see. I believe many of them have no idea what F&F is. We need to get this story out.
I forwarded it to all in my address book. I am amazed at the number of "informed" people who have never heard of this.
That was one of Bill Whittle's more powerful and dramatic presentation...it was excellent. And no, Bill, the left has no shame and no credibility. And they probably don't care about 300 dead Mexicans and one American law enforcement officer killed by guns furnished by the DOJ under the direction of Eric Holder...what an outrage!!!!
Did you notice Carney could not recall the names of the agent's family?? That is because there is no name they would rather forget.
It's all a game to the Obama gang.
The Obamabots think they are the smartest people in the world and will manipulate us to see things their way. It's all for our own good because we are too stupid to think right.
If a few people get killed along the way, so what? These people died for the Obamabots cause (unknowingly.)
Arrogance. Period.
I can't wait for November to see the looks on the faces of political and media liberals when Barry crashes worse than what Jimma Carter did.
I shared this on FB with the following comment (please feel free to copy and paste):
This week, the President utilized the cloak of executive privilege to protect Eric Holder and himself from having to provide documents to Congress related to the Fast and Furious program. If you only pay attention to network news, you have never heard of Fast and Furious and you may only have heard about the President's use of Executive Privilege if you caught a five second blurb on NBC Nightly News one night this week. This video explains how Fast and Furious resulted in the deaths of hundreds including one of our own Border Patrol Agents. I urge my friends to educate themselves about this matter and draw your own conclusions. It is the biggest government scandal since Watergate and it gets NO air time in the mainstream media.
There is another individual who was also killed Jamie Zapata, US Customs and Enforcement Agent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaime_Zapata_%28U.S._agent%29
(snip...Five months after the slaying of Jaime Zapata, a report from the White House noted that Zapata's family demanded to know the source of the weapons used in the attack. The gun that killed Zapata and wounded Víctor Ávila—a semi-automatic WASR-10[19]—was purchased by Otilio Osorio in the Dallas, Texas,[20][21][22] the serial number obliterated, and smuggled into Mexico along with nine additional rifles. Congressional investigators have stated that Osorio was known by the ATF to be a straw purchaser months before he purchased the gun used to kill Zapata, leading them to question the Bureau's Operation Fast and Furious leading to the illegal purchase and export of the murder weapon.[23] ...snip
Does this make TWO?
Excellent presentation of the OUTRAGE of Fast and Furious. Obama and Holder don't mind murdering human being to advance their ideology.
Socialist-Marxists have sacrificed over 100,000,000 human beings for the sake of socialism-Marxism-Communism. Obama and Holder call themselves "Progressives"; there is nothing progressive about murder in the name of ideology.
I can answer Bill's question. No Bill, most of them have absolutely no shame whatsoever... which is precisely why they also have no credibility and why they have a decreasing number of viewers, listeners and readers and are rapidly losing the power to influence the populous. I look forward to more opportunities to point out this lack of shame.
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