- B-Funk
Is there any way we can get the NLB speech by Rubio? I think it was given on Wednesday. Rush referenced it on Thursday because it was such strong conservatism.
- Anonymous
Great speech… great guy. I’m a fan.
- Anonymous
Love the man…hope he is the VP choice.
- Anonymous
I’m sure he will be. He IS A SNAKE, defending Romney as a “Conservative”. He’s got the Coulter Snydrome.
- Anonymous
Problem is, the Dems will go after him on the birther issue. You watch, apparently his parents weren’t citizens when he was born.
- http://profiles.google.com/ajtelles Art Telles
“… the birther issue”…
You are correct… with a twist.
To defend BHObama’s eligibility, the “Obama Birthers” will vilify the “Article 2 Constitution Birthers” and defend Rubio as eligible to be POTUS or V-POTUS even though he was born BEFORE his parents became “naturalized citizen” of the Republic.
Art
- Anonymous
I’m not so sure about that. According to Natural Law – the law of nations – children inherit the citizenship of the father. Rubio was born in this country. If Rubio’s dad became a US citizen, so did his children. That would make Rubio a natural-born citizen, unlike Obama whose father never applied for US citizenship and was a citizen of the then-British Commonwealth.
- Anonymous
IMHO the “birther” issue is a non issue. Birthers don’t have enough serious issues to worry about. If BHO is a natural born citizen then Marco Rubio most certianly is a natural born citizen!
- http://shelfreliancedenver.com/team/katy/ katy
I love Rubio…but for the life of me I cannot figure out why he is endorsing Romney who is everything antithetical to Rubio’s core.
I have become disillusioned with him since doing this and it gives me pause to everything good he stands for and has done.Romney is a fraud. Why in God’s name would Rubios champion Romney?
- Anonymous
I did not know he officially endorse Mitt?
- Anonymous
No, he just defended him and his “Conservatism” at every turn. He’s a snake.
- http://shelfreliancedenver.com/team/katy/ katy
Yes, he did. In the Florida primary. He endorsed a flip flop progressive. It was shocking.
- GiantM
Is there anyway you can provide proof of this!? I agree it’s shocking.
- Anonymous
Well its out there. An article on the Drudge “Romney Central” Report. He attacked those that were saying Romney was not a conservative – aka Newt and errrrrr all us conservatives. I really reallly like Rubio but he lost me on that issue. Can I still like him? Yeh I suppose I can but it left me scratching my head.
I’m just tried tired tired of everyone bashing Newt because he attacks Romney and the applause from the same disingenuous crowd when Romney attacks Newt.
I suppose I should have begun to see it a lot earlier but I have very very little left in common with the Republican Party. This election process has just been the nastiest, slime fest in history and it is all down to Romney and his money because he started it, continued it and continues it….
I vividly recall those early debates where Newt went out of his way to say he was not going to buy into the MSM approach to get the particpants to attack each other. Look what Romney has wrought….
- StNikao
Dear Lord, Please bless Marco Rubio… Cover, protect and keep him in Your Way…of Love, Truth and Life. In the Name of Jesus, our Lord, Amen.
- GiantM
Hear Hear!
- Anonymous
Senator Marco Rubio I’m listening!
I wan’t going to post anything else today but when it comes to Marco Rubio you can simply visualize me as Nipper, the famous RCA pup, listening VERY attentively to a masterful voice!
Senator Rubio understands the miracle of life. He understands how bogus the “unvialble life” argument is which the “free to choose” crowd pushes… Here’s a thought; Among the examples of unviable life that The Senator was reciting he could have included the ever increasing food stamp recipients…after all the great central government’s desire is for all those recipeints to believe that they would, in fact, become “unviable life” if not for the compassionate pushers of dependency.
- Anonymous
I truly believe we are witnessing history akin to the Reagan’s historic speeches of the 60′s and 70′s. Two amazing speeches in the course of one week: The immigration speech at HLN, and this one on Pro-Life stance.
People might say “So, what? Obama gives good speeches too”
I say “not even close”. As Obama would say, “Let me be Clear”. Obama gives speeches with a teleprompter that are all about style, innuendo, jokes, sarcasm, and back-handed insults at the very groups of people he should be working with to help this country. His speeches do not articulate anything. They are agitator speeches. They are come-ons, dares, smug declarations, and full of excuses.The big difference between what Reagan/Rubio did/do and what we see Obama do is clear. They articulate and define their position with the specifics of why. They paint the short and long range reasons. They point it back to how it bolsters the American ideal, not how how it should transform the American Ideal. Patriotism seems to radiate off their ideas. You can feel their love and appreciation for being American and what it means. They communicate to the heart and mind equally, satisfying both appetites simultaneously. They are great communicators of principle and conservatism.
I’ve said it in previous posts. I’ll say it again. This guy is one of the great hopes of conservatism today. It would be a home run to convince him to accept a VP nomination.
- Anonymous
If you didn’t see/hear his speech at the Reagan library this past fall ? or was it summer? time flies to quickly. It was fantastic. More presidential than anything any of the candidates we have now.
ok-it was August.
- http://twitter.com/PuritanD71 PuritanD71
For those who may think that there should be exceptions to the pro-life position please read the following http://afterabortion.org/2004/rape-incest-and-abortion-searching-beyond-the-myths-3/
- Anonymous
He’s awesome and he’s presidential.
- Anonymous
You can make great speeches when you speak from the heart. That is why Romney has such a hard time sounding inspiring when he speaks. He does not feel in his heart what he says. It is all politics for Romney. Rubio makes these speeches from the heart.
- Anonymous
Sounds good, but I fear he has been co-opted.
- Anonymous
Really heartwarming to hear a politician speak on such a hot button issue with so much passion that the sincerity is not in doubt. I thought it was so good I had to listen to it twice

Amazing to think that Kelly Ayotte is the only pro-life female in the senate. What an indicting statement on our society that is.
- http://onthemark1.blogspot.com On The Mark
“America is great because God has blessed America. And America has always honored those blessing by being an example to the world.”
“We’re not just blessed so we can have. We’re also blessed so we can give. And there’s nothing that American can give this world right now more important than to show that all life irrespective of the circumstances of its creation, irrespective of the circumstances of its birth, irrespective of the conditions that they find themselves in.. all life, in a planet were life is increasingly not valued, in a planet where people are summarily discarded.. all life is worthy of protection and all life enjoys God’s love.”
President Reagan was eminently quotable. It seems president Rubio will be as well.
- GiantM
Sorry Mark, I know this off topic, but how in the world do you get bold, underline, and italics to work!?….lol
- Anonymous
president Rubio…
If only he was a natural born citizen so that could be so!
- http://onthemark1.blogspot.com On The Mark
I know, but I’d love to run him against Obama just to force the issue.
- Anonymous
This is part of the “A” team that’s missing from the Repubik ticket. We all know who the other guy is. Hint: O-5 type.
- Anonymous
Some of these comments sound like the same comments made about Obama when he gave the keynote speech at the Democratic convention in 2004.
How can a true conservative support Romney. Romney’s record is liberal. Please just take the time to look at what he has said in the past. His record speaks for itself.
The question then is what is Rubio’s end game. Smells like more politics to me.
Buyer beware.
- GiantM
Precisely why November will tough for all of us Tea Partiers. Who DO we vote for!!?
- Anonymous
WOW!!!
- http://profile.yahoo.com/MJFJ7TFEB76QRDY3OZM6BGGLDI Chuck you Shoomer
you notice democrats never talk like this…
- K-Bob
He does a really good job of covering all of the typical arguments about life without exception. I won’t go into the philosophical arguments for and against, since I do’t want to deal with it now. However it convinces me he’s committed to the pro-life cause. As in, five years from now, you won’t see people saying “he’s not really pro life.”
- K-Bob
And a very strong close, involving two important points.
A) When you step up to the line to exchange your body for what comes next, what are you going to say for yourself?
B) IF you stick to honoring God and his commandments, the things you tenaciously work on will achieve success.What’s cool about both of these is that they work irrespective of belief in any particular religion.
- Anonymous
If cells and foetuses can’t survive independently outside of a woman, then they are therefore NOT individuals, and do not, I repeat do not have “individual rights”. To ascribe individual rights to non-individuals consequently annihilates the individual rights of any actual individuals involved, eg. the woman.
The “pro-life” stance comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of how individual rights are inferred and what they actually imply.
What winds me up the most about pro-life advocates is how they think emotionally and not rationally. They always come out with crap like “You want to kill/murder babies!” and then they shove botched-abortion photos at you, tears streaming in their eyes, and then expect you to be persuaded. It’s like dealing with bloody liberals with their granny-off-a-cliff nonsense.
- Anonymous
Like the man said, newborns can’t sustain themselves either. I can maybe see your point about cells and what is actually there right after conception. But at a certain point it is a child. I just don’t understand the reasoning behind the opposing argument. When there is a heartbeat then that’s it. Hands down. You wouldn’t argue with that would you?
- Anonymous
I would argue with that, since a heart beat does not mean that a foetus can survive if it was removed from the body, even with the aid of an incubator or with its mother’s help. There is a point at which the foetus CAN survive with an incubator or with its mother’s help, and it is this point at which I would argue that abortion should not be practised, since it becomes an individual (ie. capable of surviving outside of the body) with all the individual rights that its mother and father have.
The right to life doesn’t apply to pre-individuals, such as earlier forms of foetuses and cells. The right to life only applies to individuals (later forms of develop that can survive outside of the body). That’s why they’re called “individual rights” and not just simply “rights”.
- http://profile.yahoo.com/B2TGU6U2HFFSZUXHIPTQX36R3E Ana
“After fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into being. It is no longer a matter of taste or opinion…it is plain experimental evidence. Each individual has a very neat beginning, at conception.” Dr. Jerome Lejeune, “Father of Modern Genetics”
A person, simply put, is a human being. This fact should be enough. The intrinsic humanity of unborn children, by definition, makes them persons, and should, therefore, guarantee their protection under the law.
Whether a person is viable inside or outside the womb is irrelevant to their right to either exist or to continue existing. They have an inherent right to life to exist – period. And no person should be giving the power to destroy the right to exist – the right to live life.
A two month old baby still cannot exist without her mother’s help…same thing for a two month old fetus.
- http://twitter.com/ozziecastillo Ozzie
…neither can an elderly stroke victim, or comatose person….but they are protected lives and we can not just go around executing them.
I just listened to this speech and realized something I should have a long time ago. This abortion privacy right BS is really nothing more than a mask for the eugenics movement. Once you make the arguments for abortion, you’ve covered the legal ground for the arguments for euthanasia of those that are no longer deemed “viable”.
- Anonymous
I recommend a book by David Kapulian called “The Marketing of Evil”. It talks about the origins and tactics of the abortion and the homosexual movements. Chapter 9 covers abortion and goes back to it’s inception in the late 60′s. It’s an amazing read. The two guys who birthed the movement tell about how they lied and built it on false statistics etc. You’ll get mad..but worth the read.
- Anonymous
I don’t care what some random doctor has to say on the subject, it proves nothing.
A two month old baby CAN survive with help (incubator/mother), but a two month old foetus CANNOT survive with said help – It dies. An “individual” must be able to survive outside of the body. There is no qualifier which specifies that the survival be “unaided”.
Besides, a “person” is a legal term to describe a legal fiction of an individual, so that it can exist in the legal world, whereas individuals do not. What we’re talking about is the “individual”, which is the proper term since pro-life advocates bring up (and misuse) the “right to life”, which is the primary “individual right”.
The whole argument for pro-life advocates rests upon their claim that foetuses and cells (which cannot survive aided or unaided outside the body) have “individual rights”. I am here trying to explain to you all that you’re wrong, and I’ve explained why in my posts.
- http://profile.yahoo.com/B2TGU6U2HFFSZUXHIPTQX36R3E Ana
And I don’t care what some random schmuck, like yourself, has to say either…You don’t decide the rules of how and why and when a fetus or anything for that matter ought to live! We are all proof that as former fetuses, we have a right to exist, to live life! Unfortunately, you are one of those egotistical people who thinks that you have the intellectual superiority and Providential powers to decide at what point in human development “rights” exist. Abortion at any stage is intrinsically evil, period.
- http://profile.yahoo.com/B2TGU6U2HFFSZUXHIPTQX36R3E Ana
And you stated it perfectly, deny a two month old fetus the ordinary means of survival and he/she dies – which equals murder. Hence why we have to respect the developmental stage of every human being. To interfere with it, is to destroy it. But how silly for you to think it makes sense not to kill a fetus at 6 months because it can survive outside the womb…You are cherry picking the unborn – and you don’t get to decide who can be an individual by re-defining what it means to be a person. And with new medical technology, your definition will keep sliding back to meet “who can survive outside the womb.” That’s still a deadly slippery slope. “The intrinsic humanity of unborn children, by definition, makes them persons, and should, therefore, guarantee their protection under the law.”
- Anonymous
Murder is only applicable to “individuals”; it doesn’t apply to foetuses and cells, since they’re not individuals. They may be a form of life, but they’re not individuals. If you start applying “murder” to non-individuals, then there’s no limit to it and it’ll start getting applied to animals, plants, and other “forms of life”.
It’s not “silly” to objectively define at which point a foetus becomes an individual, and then have government make that the cut off point at which abortions cannot take place. I think that’s perfectly consistent with the government’s role as the protector of individual rights.
The whole pro-life stance is the attempt to extend government’s role beyond what the founders intended, ie. To non-individuals. It’s just as absurd as environmentalists who want to extend government’s role to “protecting animal rights” and “protecting plants’ rights” and so on.
Little do pro-life advocates or environmentalists realise that by extending the protection of individual rights to non-individuals, they will necessarily violate the authentic rights of the individual. Quite frankly though, I don’t think they care about that, because they rank individual rights lower than preventing abortions.
- K-Bob
Your characterization of the Pro-life position is deeply flawed. You do realize the false dichotomy here, if you are an objectivist. You do see that attempting to serve the interests of one absolute puts you at odds with the other. You must recognize there is no middle ground once one elevates one over the other.
There is no need for these perjorative statements. Especially since all they are is denigration, not reason.
As a moderator here, I recommend serious thought on that. The majority of commenters here, and the site owner are pro-life. You need to tread lightly when making pronouncements about the motive, attitude, belief, and intent of anyone, but especially conservatives (this is a conservative site, not a libertarian site). Them’s the rules, so please be careful.
Back on topic: Positing founder’s intent on the abortion issue is an exercise in fantasy, so I’d be careful about relying on that argument. Abortion was not an issue then. It was so rarely encountered that it would have been in the realm of UFO sightings and weird crime.
- K-Bob
That would be an incorrect summation of the Pro Life position. As such, most people *would* agree it’s wrong. Fortunately it’s also a straw man.
The date life “begins” is for all scientific and philosophical purposes, unknowable. Thus speculation about such a point in time is not a solid foundation for attempting to resolve the collision between the Personal Sovereignty rights of the mother, and the baby’s Right to Live (if it is indeed, “alive”). It is a wholly indefensible position to maintain either: that you can conclude life begins at conception based on various humors, fluids, vibrations, and spasms; OR that you can conclude the opposite, or assert some other date in the process, based on different interpretation of the same.
In fact, even when applying similar criteria to humans outside the womb, nothing special has changed about those humors, fluids, spasms, and vibrations. The ONLY thing that has changed that has an absolute quality to it is “viability ex-utero.” This is in fact, a phase change which cannot be observed in it’s occurrence, other than to note–roughly–when the change appears to have completed (though we can try to help it along). Thus we are left with the need for some assumption, with regard to the law concerning personhood.
This assumption is unavoidable. We must choose a point where life begins, because it cannot be computed. Neither can it be concluded based on measurements taken of the embryo/fetus/baby/human in question. We only know with certainty that a person is “born” when we can see that he or she remains viable, ex-utero.
Before the days of neo-natal care, that would have been the logical starting point for the law. And indeed it was. (Further back in time, young children were not deemed to be legal entities until they had lived beyond early childhood, owing to the high rates of infant mortality). Now we know a child can be successfully “born” in as little as 22 weeks of gestation. This is already near the beginning of the point where “society” assumes or discovers a woman is pregnant. What happens when artificial wombs are available? What about fetal transplants to surrogate mothers? The window we are looking at, when a fetus can exist outside of the mother’s womb (with special care), is shrinking rapidly.
Somewhere between the instant of conception and the point where a baby can be kept alive artificially outside of the mother (for some period) is the point where life begins. How can we decide whether the “tissue mass” is “alive” within those 22 weeks? Clearly, within the 22 weeks of criticality, we cannot know at any time in the process, which of the two states, “Fully Human” or “Parasitic Tissue Mass” is operative. We must divine a legal position based on assumption.
The most commonly offered assumption for “Life” among the medical and scientific community seems to revolve around detecting a heartbeat. No one can say why this is more important, scientifically speaking, than say, a certain level of electrical current detected in the developing nervous system. Another is when the lungs are developed. Yet another is when a certain number of “cellular divisions” have occurred. All of these are arbitrary, even if some bear the stamp of emotional significance (such as hearing a beating heart). None are truly scientific.
We are stuck, today, with this shrinking, twenty-two week window of criticality wherein life is deemed “to be.” Add in also the fact that some women are unaware of pregnancy until after several weeks have passed. Thus, in ideal terms, the minimum period of time a woman must deal with the awareness of sharing her body with a developing fetus is reduced to about five months. Clearly a very solid case can be made that a developing fetus can be considered fully human at the beginning of the third trimester.
But even that window is shrinking. Long before it shrinks to zero weeks, we will pass another threshold. The threshold of malicious equivocation.
- K-Bob
What is the threshold of malicious equivocation?
It is the point where, with so few weeks required of a woman to complete minimal gestation, that to make a case for asserting Personal Sovereignty–i.e., the right to NOT be “inconvenienced”–one must resort to equivocation about enduring stretch marks, weight gain, social stigma, avoiding certain foods, etc. The reason it would be malicious is that medical technology can remove so much of the burden from her, that to deny the life of the child in those circumstances becomes more and more cruel, as the window gets smaller.
Thus, we are really trying to determine, not just where Life begins, but where that threshold of malicious equivocation about it begins. Obviously between that threshold and the third trimester, we are talking about a very small window indeed.
Somewhere within that small window is where the law must settle, today, to be able to simply catch up with science and medicine. This means that we should have a firm number of weeks of gestation–between the instant of conception, and the threshold of malicious equivocation–where life is deemed to exist, and must be afforded the protection of law.
We’re basically talking about the first trimester here.
Twelve weeks.
And growing smaller.
We can see where this is headed. All too soon any appeal to Personal Sovereignty will be seen as cruel, given the small period of inconvenience. (We can assume any “born” child would be put up for adoption, if it it is not wanted).
Given this shrinking window, and the fact that all of these points-in-time during gestation are arbitrary, why should we be required to assume the Life doesn’t exist during any of it? What need do we have to make that assumption, given that the Personal Sovereignty issue is so insignificant, compared to our ancestors? Why must we choose any date at all?
It turns out we don’t. Since it IS a matter of “inconvenience” to the mother, for all intents and purposes it does not matter which date you choose. In fact, as a philosophical issue, arising from a matter of logistics and basic logic, we can treat the developing fetus as a fully grown child, because the inconvenience to a mother giving up a child to adoption is roughly the same, regardless. (And because to have an abortion just to “avoid all that hassle” is needlessly cruel, given the small, and shrinking window of criticality).
So the law can, and should assume life begins at conception.
This brings up issues that are separate from it, but arise because of it. But we can go into those later.
The bottom line is that the pro-life position is NOT based on cells, fetuses vs embryos, or even viability-ex-utero. It’s based on the growing insignificance of the Personal Sovereignty issue and the increasing likelihood that Life starts very early in the process.
- K-Bob
And, I should add (for those who were right all along), the morals of dealing death so cavalierly just to maintain a hassle-free lifestyle.
- Anonymous
The issue isn’t about “when life begins”, but is actually about “when the foetus becomes an individual and therefore endowed with inalienable individual rights, which consequently must be protected by the government”.
The pro-choice stance does not declare that foetuses, cells, or even single sperm are “not alive”. We wholly admit that they are… just as we admit that our appendices (and other organs) are “alive”.
If the criteria is “let’s protect life”, then there are NO limits, and there is NO justification for imposing any limits. It’s literally a free-for-all, where people can call on government to stop the killing of animals, insects, plants, bacteria, and so on (they’re “life” too, you know!).
It doesn’t take a genius to realise what logical conclusion we’d be headed towards under such a criteria.
I’ve pointed out in previous posts that the defining quality of an “individual” is that it can survive (aided or unaided) outside of the womb, since until it is able to survive separation from its mother, then it isn’t an “individual”, but is instead a part of the mother, just as her organs are, and so therefore the mother can CHOOSE to remove any part of her body, just as she can choose to remove any organ.
I’ve also explained in previous posts that the point at which a foetus can survive separation from its mother can be estimated by biologists, and then government can work with that time frame to objectively decide the cut off point at which the foetus becomes an individual with individual rights and therefore protected by the government.
btw, I appreciate that I can have a real debate on this issue; too many people get emotional about this topic and it’s refreshing to read well thought out pro-life posts.
- K-Bob
In my comments, you should take the term “Life” as mostly meaning the definition of living human, entitled to protection of law. I didn’t bother with the smaller notion of “living tissue,” since that’s not really a concern.
I’m actually supportive of the Personal Sovereignty side of the abortion issue. That makes me nominally “pro-choice,” however I have no problem assuming that life begins at conception. Assuming otherwise is unnecessary to support the pro-choice side, anyway.
From a logic standpoint, the only place that assumption matters is when attempting to support a casual view on abortion. Being pro-choice should never mean that the choice itself should be taken lightly, nor frequently, nor for insufficient reason. (I realize that statement would bother some champions of Individual Liberty, but it’s actually a similar logic to the notion of self-defense: e.g., we don’t let people shoot folks who “seem threatening.”)
Yeah, we have some good discussions here. When things get volatile, they get shut down, so that makes people step up their game.
- Anonymous
And yet you liberals were the first to scream “Baby killers” at Viet Nam Vets returning home.
If you’ve never taken a life, you have no credibility in this issue and maybe not even in this … never mind
- Anonymous
Hah no, I’m actually to your right, in the Objectivist camp. Being pro-choice is one of the very few things that liberals actually got “correct”. It’s sad to see people on the right (eg. conservatives) so egregiously misunderstanding and abusing the principle of individual rights.
- http://profile.yahoo.com/B2TGU6U2HFFSZUXHIPTQX36R3E Ana
You are by far an objectivist – so don’t flatter yourself. You are a subjectivist, you see reality in your own personal taste and opinion. Narrow-mindedness is the other name for it.
- Anonymous
It may surprise you, but Ayn Rand was pro-choice, and there are strong Objectivist arguments for why the pro-choice argument is the right/moral argument.
- K-Bob
Those arguments have lost a lot of strength due to the advent of the neo-natal intensive care arm of medicine. In Ayn Rand’s day, a fetus was not viable until well after a woman had endured many long months of pregnancy (and the social stigma that goes with it).
- Anonymous
The advent of neo-natal care does not invalidate the arguments. All that such innovations do is make it more viable for foetuses to survive (and then live a full life as an individual) outside of the womb. There will of course be a point at which it just isn’t possible to continue the development of a foetus outside the womb with outside help (other than synthesizing the entire birth process).
- GiantM
I couldn’t disagree more Kordane.
First off, having a full understanding of creation would help. Secondly if evolution is your cup of tea then I can understand your statement. But for us “Pro- Life Advocates”, we cherish life from it’s conception because it is ordained from the Creator. Thus anything created is meant to be perfect at conception. Regardless whether a fetus has rights or not, in my eyes it is a perfect creation that is meant to be saved because of the potential that little life holds for this world regardless of how he or she was conceived.
Matt 19:26 “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
- Anonymous
Quote: “Regardless whether a fetus has rights or not, in my eyes it is a perfect creation that is meant to be saved”
You’ve basically conceded the principle of individual rights to me, and all it took was one post. When pro-life advocates concede on their false claims concerning the “right to life”, then all they have left is mysticism and force, eg. “You will develop/conceive that child because OUR GOD ordains it, OR ELSE!” (observe the tyranny)
I will go toe-to-toe with any pro-life advocate about individual rights, because I know they’re wrong and I’m right. I’ll leave them with no avenue other than to use mysticism and force… and then I’ll point out the egregous tyranny that they are advocating.
I’ll happily explain creation (absent of any intelligent being) to you, if you want an education.
- Anonymous
Ok. I’ll take your bait. But please, afford me your answer to this question. Just what is it that results when a sperm and an egg meet? Death?
- Anonymous
It’s just two cellular organisms merging to become a single cellular organism that has the ability to replicate. Biology 101 right there.
- Anonymous
organism [awr-guh-niz-uh m] -noun
1. a form of ‘life’ composed of mutually interdependent parts that maintain various vital processes.
2. a form of ‘life’ considered as an entity; anilmal, plant, fungus, protistan, or moneran.
3. any organized body or system conceived of as analogous to a living being.
4. any complex thing or system having properties and relations of its individual parts, but by the character of the whole that they compose and by the relations of the parts to the whole.
biology [bahy-ol-uh-jee] -noun
1. the science of ‘life’ or ‘living’ matter in all its forms and phenomena, especially with reference to origin, growth, reproduction, structure, and behavior.
2. the ‘living’ organisms of a region.
You answered well! Life indeed! It’s life…not death.
- K-Bob
Don’t sweat it. He’s simply chosen one side of the false dilemma; this notion that one set of absolutes can trump another. You aren’t going to convince him, since he denies the absolute of Life in favor of the absolute of Personal Sovereignty. It’s no big deal, since most pro-lifers simply do it the other way ’round.
Since people seem to insist on this false dilemma, these two absolutes will crash together indefinitely, and no agreement can be reached. Note his reference to “mysticism and force.” Meanwhile, the force used to terminate a pregnancy is denied, and the mysticism in asserting no prime entelechy exists (Christians call Him by name) is employed. Just a little smoke and mirrors to go with the selection of which absolute to defend.
As I said, it’s no big deal, since we know an agreement is impossible between these two camps.
Fortunately science is catching up, and we are closer to maintaining a fetus outside the womb than we were when Roe v. Wade was decided. As the time of criticality for a fetus remaining within a woman’s body approaches zero, so does the weight of righteousness which impels the Personal Sovereignty folks to deny Life. In other words, the abortion on demand “right” is slowly becoming moot.
(You’d never guess I’m pro choice–in general–after that, but there we are. I’m pro choice, but unlike most Objectivists and Libertarians, I am willing to cede that life begins at conception.)
- Trust1TG
Speaking of rights, there are no ‘sexual gratification rights’ either in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Bible. There are laws, however against killing. It is specially odious and vile to seek one’s own pleasure and then kill your own child that you have created. Imagine a heart so hard they do not love or want their own child.
This is the height of selfishness. To create a human life recklessly and carelessly – then snuff it out like putting out a cigarette.
That is truly disgusting.
If you want to break God’s law and have your own way, seek your own pleasure without consequence (except for STDs) then get a vasectomy; don’t kill your own child. At least there some kind of Biblical argument for this: “If thine eye offend thee pluck it out, if thine hand offend, then cut it off” – Matthew 5:30, Mark 9:43-45
- Anonymous
To deny the right to enjoy sex for the sake of personal gratification alone, is to deny the right to the pursuit of happiness, and thus shred the declaration of independence.
You look down on selfishness as a vice, but I look up at it as a virtue worth attaining. Ask yourself what is more selfish than “the pursuit of happiness”, and then question yourself as to whether you TRULY stand behind the declaration of independence and the individual rights of Man.
I don’t think you do.
- K-Bob
You just made the libertine argument. The Declaration was not for Libertines. It was for “rational” self-interest, not irrational, unbounded self-interest. Else why have laws at all?
- Anonymous
There is no such thing as “irrational self-interest”, since all self-interest is rational, and any irrationality is necessarily self less/destructive of the self. You do realise that to claim that the declaration was “for rational self-interest”, then you are claiming that the declaration was consistent with the Objectivist ethics, and not with Christianity’s altruism-centric ethics.
My point was that it’s wrong to deny people the freedom of action “to enjoy sex” for enjoyment alone and not for reproduction as such, because that freedom of action is implied by the individual rights, but most apparently in “the pursuit of happiness”.
- K-Bob
Claiming “all self interest is rational” is an untenable position. It denies the existence of irrational thought processes, which is clearly false.
The reason certain branches of objectivism have problems with Christianity is that they deny the rational self interest inherent in acts of charity. Failing to be charitable when need is apparent sets a person up for difficult times should they suddenly become needy. That’s why it’s wise to be concerned for your fellow man.
Where people go wrong is in declaring that bit of wisdom to be the imperative of Government, or in government’s purview, which the founders clearly did not establish. Only when classical Liberalism became corrupted into modern liberalism did the notion of government-enforced “redistribution” gain ground. Christianity, pe se, is not communist at its core. However, people who believe in the government’s mandate to enforce altruism have abused Christian teachings in order to cobble together an excuse for communist altruism.
What you are missing with regard to Trust1TG’s comment is that the Constitution is not a grantor of rights to the people. Hence, no “right to enjoy sex” is guaranteed by that document. It isn’t a question of whether you have the freedom of action to do so “in general.” It’s the point that a state, under the Constitution, can limit your sexual activities just as it can limit your ability to wear a sword into town. (This is why Statutory Rape laws are constitutional, even when underage girls initiate the sex.) The “pursuit” right, in the Declaration was never intended to invest the republic with anarchist or libertine values.
- Anonymous
Quote: “Claiming “all self interest is rational” is an untenable position. It denies the existence of irrational thought processes, which is clearly false”
If you’re being irrational, but think that you’re acting in your self-interest, then you’re not actually acting in your self-interest, since you’re not being rational to begin with. It is never in your self-interest to be irrational; it leads to self-less/self-destructive ends.
Quote: “The reason certain branches of objectivism have problems with Christianity is that they deny the rational self interest inherent in acts of charity. Failing to be charitable when need is apparent sets a person up for difficult times should they suddenly become needy”
In the “ethics of emergencies” section of Ayn Rand’s book “the virtue of selfishness”, it is explained that it can be in your rational self-interest to help someone, but only if their survival is of greater value to you than whatever effort/risk/loss you take in helping them. It is argued that you can sometimes “profit” from charity, depending the individual factors involved.
However what you’re talking about is helping others regardless of whether there is any immediate or perceivable profit in it, except for some “potential profit” should you ever require help in future. This view denies the view that others may still have some immediate or perceivable profit in helping you. It is the view that others will instead all collectively choose to not help you, as “revenge” for you not helping others.
The Objectivist ethics says that even a complete stranger has a ‘value’ (even though it’s small) in their “human potential” to be of profit to you. If for instance, you’re a billionaire and some beggar on the street requests monetary help from you, you may decide that the beggar’s “human potential” is of greater value than the lesser value of whatever money you give to him (because you have so much).
It’s a pretty malevolent view you have, to think that everyone will collectively refuse to help you, in an act of revenge, if you don’t help others.
- K-Bob
Malevolent? Seriously? To deny evil–in this case, any potential unwillingness to help those who behave uncharitably–is foolish in the extreme. No broad self interest obtains to those who commit such a category error. This is why I mention that “some” objectivists have trouble with this. Not all objectivists have a mission to denigrate Christianity or try and relate it to statism. Further, your construction assumes that in your particular type of objectivist world, “help will happen since evil would not dare intrude.” If anything here flirts with coercion it it that assumption.
As to the teachings within the Christian community which urge acts of charity: It is simply good business to show a willingness to participate in actions that benefit others. It is bad business to indicate you might not, or probably would not do so. Most people have an innate sense of agreement with that statement, even if they never read a word of scripture, or philosophy.
This “coercion” view of Christianity is based on your assumption, and not the thing itself. To ascribe, twice now, malevolence and “badness” to such a straw-man exceeds the bounds of good taste, since these matters can be discussed without such perjorative coloration.
- Anonymous
Quote: “Christianity, pe se, is not communist at its core. However, people who believe in the government’s mandate to enforce altruism have abused Christian teachings in order to cobble together an excuse for communist altruism”
Christianity does not advocate the full and total altruism that was advocated by the likes of Immanuel Kant and practised by Communist states. Christianity advocates a kind of “altruism-lite”, since Christianity says to love thy neighbor as thyself, but it doesn’t go as far as to say that you must love your neighbor better than yourself – which is precisely what brings about the mass slaughter found in Communist states.
Full and total altruism contradicts the basic premise of Christianity (the sacredness of one’s own soul), because it demands the complete self-sacrifice of oneself (body, mind and the products of both) for the sake of others.
So yes, Christianity isn’t “communist at its core”, as you said … but there is still a great deal of human sacrifice instinsic in its moral code, and that is very bad indeed.
- K-Bob
You are simply incorrect about this. Christianity does not require works of altruism. It simply doesn’t. That means the choice lies with each individual. Nothing “bad” about that in the least.
However wisdom found in christian homes, and verses of the bible, and churches, strongly advises people to care for each other. It’s simply a smart move for the furtherence of civilization, and the well being of people. But it’s totally voluntary.
- Anonymous
Yes it is voluntary and it doesn’t require it as a command, but it is undeniably the moral code at the heart of Christianity, and since morality is the most powerful of all intellectual arguments, it will necessarily have a VERY powerful influence over the actions of its followers.
I don’t think altruism is “a smart move for the furtherance of civilization”, even the “altruism-lite” of Christianity. I would argue that to sacrifice oneself for anyone is evil, but note that this does not mean that you can never help anyone unsacrificially. To sacrifice oneself is to give up a greater value (to you) in exchange for something of lesser or no value (to you). You might give up something of lesser value (to you) in exchange for the lesser value (to you) which is the life of someone you help. Also, I quote from Rush Limbaugh: “Greed has fed more mouths than charity ever could”.
- K-Bob
You are weighting altruism differently based on whatever argument you are trying to make. Altruism is not the forced sacrifice of life so that another may live. It is simply the notion that you might help a fellow being survive, just because it is good to do so. That’s it. So claiming it’s evil is incorrect. Only coerced sacrifice is evil. In fact, at the point where it is coerced, it ceases to be altruism, and becomes simply totalitarianism.
Rand’s pledge in Atlas (…never live for the sake of another man…) was obviously not an appeal to end all forms of help one human may give another. That would probably be unworkable in practice. It was directed at ending coercion by the government, and by social pressure really, to always feel you must give of your treasure and time so that deadbeats can have it for nothing.
That’s an entirely different thing from basic charity, and Rand made that clear.
- Anonymous
You’re right about coerced sacrifice being evil, but you’re wrong about voluntary sacrifice not being evil.
From Atlas Shrugged: “Man’s motive power is his moral code. Ask yourself where their code is leading you and what it offers you as your final goal. A viler evil than to murder a man, is to sell him suicide as an act of virtue. A viler evil than to throw a man into a sacrificial furnace, is to demand that he leap in, of his own will, and that he build the furnace, besides“
- K-Bob
That passage invokes coercion (“to demand”). Voluntary sacrifice is what parents do for their children. It’s what men do to support their family. It’s what neighbors do to support a friend who’s fallen on hard times. Rand recognized that, and pointed out that her thoughts were directed at government and societal pressure (i.e., living in a community where someone is expected to give up their place in line to the less (or more) privileged).
Not all selfishness is bad, and not all altruism is bad. Only when they are removed from the control of the individual do they become evil.
- Anonymous
An amazing man.
- Anonymous
I’ve been reading about this speech all week and finally had the time to watch it here. That was not one of Rubio’s better speeches and it certainly didn’t live up to the hype. I’m not sure how one goes about “losing” a prepared speech these days but it obviously affected his delivery. He’s a much better speaker than he comes across here.
It’ll be interesting to see if he endorses for President. I don’t think he will since he didn’t bother in Florida where he would have the most influence. My guess is he’ll issue some statement of support for Romney after Romney clinches the nomination, but that would be very awkward. That might be why he didn’t mention anything about rape or incest in this speech. It’s going to be very tough for any pro-life Republican to support a pro-choice candidate.
- GiantM
Yup…I agree.
- http://twitter.com/cfallon57 Cheryl Fallon
Romney’s pro life!
- Anonymous
I am soooooo impressed with this man!
- Anonymous
And that’s what you get when somebody speaks from the heart.
Phenomenal!
- Anonymous
He’s a good guy. I hope he gets his “teleprompter” fixed. Haha!
- Anonymous
I think he does better without the teleprompter.
Besides, these days most teleprompters come preloaded with marxist propaganda.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Andrew-Alaniz/1698789104 Michael Andrew Alaniz
Romney/Rubio 2012!!!
- Anonymous
Highly hyped and purely secondary issue. Pretty boy is pandering. Let women figure it out, why so many men have to get involved with women’s physical capabilities? Rubio is jabbering, suffering from talkititis, i is a disease that afflicts men who get a microphone and audience.
- Trust1TG
Redwood,
You’ve said a lot more about yourself and your own heart and mind than you have about Rubio.
God’s point of view is that human life and its entrance and exit from the earth are His domain and our human souls belong to Him. God takes the shedding of human blood seriously, whether born or unborn, whether in war or peace, shed blood must be repented, cleansed and forgiven…or it can turn into a hard heart and blood lust.
You should look up ‘innocent blood’ at Biblegateway.com sometime, and other Scriptures that pertain to killing another human being, starting with the story of Cain in Genesis.
One of the reasons a nation can suffer war and loss of prosperity is the shedding of innocent blood polluting the land. The US and Western world have killed billions and billions of unborn children until we have lost our sense of humanity and natural affection and our ability to love in a committed and sacrificial way.
This is why Islam is rising to take us captive as it always did in the form of Babylon, Assyria, Egypt or another pagan nation when Israel sinned in the Bible.
We will be conquered unless we repent of this evil…and return to obedience to God and His Commandments and Law.
- Anonymous
SENATOR RUBIO IS A CLASS ACT. HE IS A YOUNG MAN OF CHARACTER AND CONVICTION FROM A GENERATION OF YOUNGER PEOPLE THAT SHOW VERY LITTLE OF THESE QUALITIES. MY PRAYER IS THAT MORE OF HIS GENERATION LISTEN TO HIM AND TRY TO BECOME MORE LIKE HIM AND AT THE SAME TIME BEGIN TO STAND UP FOR INTEGRITY ESPECIALLY FOR THEMSELVES.
- http://profiles.google.com/ajtelles
- http://shelfreliancedenver.com/team/katy/
- http://shelfreliancedenver.com/team/katy/
- http://twitter.com/PuritanD71
- http://onthemark1.blogspot.com
- http://onthemark1.blogspot.com
- http://profile.yahoo.com/MJFJ7TFEB76QRDY3OZM6BGGLDI
- http://profile.yahoo.com/B2TGU6U2HFFSZUXHIPTQX36R3E
- http://twitter.com/ozziecastillo
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- http://twitter.com/cfallon57
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