Perhaps you Romney supporters should point your fingers at the GOP instead of RP supporters if Obama wins reelection. Romney did not 'win' the spot on the Republican ticket, it was already predetermined. If the process had been allowed to occur normally, perhaps more RP supporters would vote for the winner of the Republican nomination. Another fact that you should face, we don't elect the president. Except in those few states that have laws stating that the electors must cast their vote for the majority winner, your vote don't count. You can verify this by checking our history. Popular opinion doesn't always coincide with the outcome of presidential elections. The truth of the matter is that the Rep and Dem parties have our government in a choke hold, and have primarily since the mid 1800's. Why do you think you only see the nominee from these 2 parties participating in the debates. Granted Perot did in '92 as a third party, but only because Bush wanted to allow it in the hope of taking votes from Clinton. Why are so many of you settling for one of the 2 'choices' forced on you? In Romneys defense, I do honestly believe more Americans will be able to return to the workforce but will not even seriously endeavor to correct the serious issues that jeopardize our nation (budget, deficit, our rights, states rights, etc, etc). That's precisely why he was hand picked for this election. I still intend to cast my vote for Ron Paul. I am doing it because he is a true statesman and not only recognizes the problems we face but also sincerly wants to address them. He has been warning us about reaching our current state as far back as the 80's, and yet no one would listen. Sadly, a lot of you still aren't. In summation, instead of you pointing your finger and asking us why we aren't supporting Romney, perhaps we should be pointing our finger at you and asking why aren't you supporting Paul. We have just as much right to say that a vote for Romney is a vote for Obama, but we don't. Why? Because that is your choice, you have that right just as we have ours. We are not as few in number as you are lead to believe, just ask any one of the 11,000 that attended his convention in Tampa the week of the RNC. I am not attempting to sway anyones vote that reached a logical decision, just trying to get those that have fallen into a herd mentality to reach their own decision thru logic instead of conformity or intimidation.
Rand is the politician necessary in this liberty movement. That is what many of you don't get RP is not about winning the horse race or beauty pageant, he desire we will retain our liberty and keep the fruits of our labor. Rand is the next phase of you keeping your freedom. It took 200 yrs for these people finally make us slaves, now is our duty to start regains our true freedoms back for our progeny. And for you info voting for RP hurt the democrips just as bad as the Republibloods. Selah.
I don't like it, either, but it is truly as simple as Ryan put it:
“Do you want Barack Obama to be elected? Then don’t vote for Ron Paul.”
Consider this horrifying FACT: If, for purposes of ideology purity, living in an alternate universe, refusal to accept anything but 100%, stubbornness, chip-on-shoulder, religious bigotry, etc., millions stay home or vote for third party candidates with ZERO chance to win, a second-term Obama puts one or two more leftists on the SCOTUS. It's lights out.
Admitted, Romney is a weak conservative. But he has made so many public statements (even if reading his notes written by others) on free markets, individual rights, religious freedom, limited gov't, etc., that he has no choice but go that direction. And we can hold his feet to the fire by reminding him of each and every one of them.
And anyone who honestly cannot see any difference between Romney and Obama, or honestly believes that one of these other guys (Gary who???) has a chance to do anything but re-elect the current Traitor-In-Chief, or denies the fact that Romney will buy you some time to build a (viable) third party, should NEVER be allowed near a voting booth.
Finally, if you libertarians get your way, and re-elect this failed president, I want you to return your license to complain, and you have my thanks, in advance, for ending this American experiment. I implore you to think and pray about your decision, before it's too late!
Obviously, by my profile name here on this site you know whom I support. Yes, I know 99.9% of the people that blog here do not support Congressman Paul. So before you start, please don't reply to this post about what a "lunatic", "nutcase", etc. both the congressman and I am as I will not engage you in a debate. And yes, I still believe he would be the right man to lead this country back to free market capitalism, liberty, prosperity, and peace.
However, that being said, even I realize how desperate our situation is right now in the USA so even I have begun to consider voting for Romney. We all know full well that the USA will be arguably unrecognizable 4 years from now if Barack and the Democrats continue to dominate the political landscape in Washington. The CBO has already come out and said that unemployment will be approx. 9% by this time next year. We have already become (in my opinion) the USSA. Now we're moving towards becoming the USSR and we all know how well that turned out!
As much as I hate to compromise my principles and vote for "the lesser of two evils" (which is still evil none the less), I may have to in order to do my part to try and save what little is left of what was the greatest country on the face of the earth.
Think of it this way, I sid this earlier, too, you are not voting for the "lesser of two evils" you are voting for the "one who will prevent more evil".
I commend you for taking the time to consider your options. I pray more follow your lead. America cannot afford four more years of this. I'm sure you aren't compromising on everything, I know that RP and MR have many things in common, definitely more so than RP and BO, so I think you are definitely going to be making the right decision.
Yes I know the USA cannot take four more years of Barack.
Just as a side note...I read just recently that if you take every President from Truman to GW Bush and look at all the months of unemployment over 8% FOR ALL OF THEM it would total 39.
THIS ONE PRESIDENT HAS HAD MORE MONTHS OF UNEMPLOYMENT OVER 8% THAN ALL THE PRESIDENTS IN THE LAST 64 YEARS COMBINED!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
So, yeah I know it's bad, it's really, really bad under Barack and the scariest part is with four more years of it, IT COULD ACTUALLY GET WORSE!!!
I've said in other posts to this topic that unless Romney says or does something to really piss me off, he probably has my vote.
All the best to you!
Thank you for injecting some rational common sense discussion into the thread. Most other Paul supporters on here are reacting emotionally rather than with understanding. You are at least considering the true consequences of this election. I know the majority of Ron Paul supporters are making similar considerations because they know saving this great country and our Constitution rank far above the petty arguments a few hard-core die-hards have posted here. We must now all stand together or hang separately.
Thank you for your kind words. Much appreciated.
Please understand that (from my perspective) if you don't stand BY your principles, you don't have much else to stand ON.
I think I can speak for the rest of the Ron Paul supporters in that maybe the USA wouldn't be in the shape it's in now if people stood by their principles for the past 50 - 60 - 70 years of voting in elections.
Anyway, as I said in another reply to my post, I'm definitely leaning towards Romney right now only because the situation is so bad.
The biggest problem I have with Romney is I just don't trust him to follow up on what he says. I guess I feel we as a country have been burned too many times by politicians promising they're gonna create jobs, lessen our dependency on foreign oil, help the poor and middle class, etc. We all know they've been saying these things for years and nothing changes. Why should I all of a sudden believe that we should believe this guy when everyone of them before him has failed?
Sorry, I don't mean to dump this all on you but I hope you can see where I'm coming from (along with probably every other Ron Paul supporter).
But as I said, Romney probably has my vote anyway.
Thanks again for the reply and the kind words.
All the best to you!
I do understand where you are coming from and I always appreciate an intelligent, civil discussion on tough issues like this. I was raised in a democrat union family. Once I got out on my own I became an Independent. I think I still have my Ross Perot yard sign tucked away somewhere. LOL I later became a registered Republican but now have turned once again to Independent, so I've gone full-circle.
Being recently retired, I had the opportunity for the first time to watch the entire Republican convention. What I saw over the course of those 3 days left me with a very positive feeling towards the future of the Republican party. I'm not sure how many people noticed, but this convention reflected the changing of the guard.
Beyond the expected establishment speakers, you saw them passing the gauntlet to a youthful, exhuberant and diverse variety of speakers. They showcased the future Republican party and it was actually fun to watch them speak. Marco Rubio, Mia Love, Susan Martinez, the list is extensive and impressive. Combine the class of the 2010 tea party election with incoming 2012 Congressmen and women and I do believe the future holds a very promising blending of principled, Constitution loving legislators who are committed to bringing us back to our core principles.
It is equally important that the right people are elected to represent us in the House and Senate. In some ways those elections are more important then the Presidential candidates. Obama had control of both houses and we ended up with Obamacare. One less democratic Senator and that never would have happened. Since Romney has picked Paul Ryan he has shown that he is serious about working with the "new" Republican party as I see it. Having the correct legislators in Washington will hold him to it.
Have a great day and never lose your perspective!
Either way, you're still a patriot and you still love your country.
Personally, I hope you'll vote for Mitt (I'm holding my nose as I do too), because he's the current front-runner against Obama and has the best chance to remove this monster from his thrown.
Thank you for your kind words. I really appreciate it.
What I'm going to do is see what happens over the next 5 or so weeks. I will be completely honest and say that I'm leaning towards Romney right now only because of how bad the situation really is. Unfortunately, I really don't trust him to be a man of his words. So, unless something really sways be the other way (i.e. Romney does or says something to really piss me off), he'll probably get my vote.
Thanks again for the kind words and support!
All the best to you!
Wait, so the choice we have now is between a liberal and a communist?
Wow conservatives, way to conserve!
I really like Paul Ryan, this young VP is starting to grow on me. This question that Mr. Ryan was asked, was not a big surprise. It seem's that the RP supporter's are coalescing and going to different Conservative sites, and obviously now too, with some of Romney/ Ryan rallies to speak-out and show much disdain for how they were treaty at the RNC.
The RP supporter's feel as if somehow, "their votes alone" are going to decide this race......" I have been told numerous times with-in my industry, that many are for Obama anyway's and it's more about "showing respect on their individualism" that they're the original Constitutionalist movement and the Tea Party are Neo-Con's and the GOPe have co-opted the movement.............. Really?
In many way's, RP supporter's with their language and dialog seem's very left, almost to a fault, not realizing it for themselves. It's not new knew's in regards to how both party's, the R's and D's have played a major role in America's decay, and now sliding into Socialism with Obama.
The question is-- how much more damage are folks willing to put-up with? Mitt isn't everyone's favorite, and certainly not my first choice, but Obama and where we are right now, it's "not" something I'm willing to make worse just because my party or the person I supported "was disc" and now, out of anger'............wanting the rest of America to suffer.
Ryan answered that question correctly and explained himself very well.
This is a long post, but I think it's important for all to read. Wayne Alan Root, a Libertarian, former supporter of Gary Johnson. Now supports, whole heartedly, Mitt Romney. His article posted below appears on Breitbart today. but I posted the full thing here. I hope that's ok scoop! ;o)
Mitt Romney is Bullworth
By Wayne Allyn Root
Do you remember the movie "Bullworth?" Warren Beatty was a candidate for U.S. Senate who had a big problem. He told the raw, unvarnished truth. The media was shocked and horrified. Voters were befuddled and angry- at first. Can you even imagine the nerve of a politician talking honestly to the voters? Blasphemy!
But guess what? Against all odds, Bullworth proved the media...the critics...the naysayers...the doubters...wrong. He caught fire. He attracted huge crowds. The people fell in love with a politician that told the truth- no matter who it offended. The media was befuddled.
It took a little time, but once voters realized the truth was...the truth...they started to like hearing it. They realized that sometimes mom and dad have to tell you to stop eating chocolate and candy. You may not like hearing the truth, but it's always best for you.
Don't look now, but a real-life media vs. Bullworth is developing. The biased liberal mainstream media is in a frenzy, frothing at the mouth like never before in modern political history, because Mitt told the truth. They'll do anything to save Obama and stop Mitt from telling the truth. They'll make the truth look mean or racist or close-minded. They'll try to frighten you. They'll tell you that you can't survive without government.
The media will also cover-up for Obama. They'll ignore the Obama tape where he admits to supporting income redistribution (aka "socialism" for those unfamiliar with the definition). They'll ignore that Obama was on "Letterman" and didn't know the amount of the national debt. They'll refuse to question Obama about the "Fast & Furious" scandal that led to 300 deaths and the resignation of Obama officials. They'll refuse to ask Obama why he knew about a possible attack on the U.S. Embassy in Libya 3 days before, but did nothing. They'll ignore that Obama is either lying or completely incompetent about why the attack happened in the first place. The truth is something the mainstream media won't touch.
Here's my advice to Mitt Romney:
Don't get defensive. Don't apologize. We see where appeasement and apology got Obama in the Middle East. People smell weakness and they attack. Mitt, you must take the offense. Tell the truth and take no prisoners. Like Bullworth, voters will love it and support you...once they get over the initial shock at being treated like adults.
Let the media scream and berate you, call you names, and warn of impending doom in your campaign.
Good. Go with it! Let's see more of it. Drive them crazy with the truth. Confound the political experts.
Mitt, you can be a hero...a Ronald Reagan for 2012. Tell the truth. Let the politics of lying be damned. The truth is most Americans hate the elite media snobs and their politically correct views. We hate the politics of Hollywood too. We may go to George Clooney, Alec Baldwin, or Natalie Portman movies, but we know they were one lucky break away from pumping gas or waiting tables. We don't buy movie tickets to hear their ignorant political views.
So, let the media and Hollywood mock you. You're onto something here. Keep telling the truth!
Keep explaining to Americans that debt kills economies. Keep explaining that we are broke, that Obama is burying our children and grandchildren under mountains of debt. Explain that debt has destroyed Europe and that we are on the same path of economic destruction as Greece, Italy, and Spain. Explain that while Bush added $3 trillion to the debt in eight years, Obama has added $5 trillion in only 3 1/2, but admitted on national TV he doesn't know the debt figures.
Keep explaining that many of the 47% getting government checks are victims. But it isn't their fault. It's the drug dealer that needs to be punished, not the drug user. Obama and the Democrat Party have hooked tens of millions of Americans on big government. Explain how the dealer desperately needs to addict his customers, to keep them dependent on him. Keep pointing out that Obama and the elite media have contempt for the poor, and see them only as addicts who will keep voting them into power.
Mitt, embrace the truth. The truth is Obama needs to keep voters hooked on government programs and checks. It's the only way he can be re-elected. But, deep down addicts want to get off the drugs. It's time to tell those dependent on government, that you offer rehab. You want to set them free. By growing the economy and paying down the debt you will create jobs and give them back their dignity.
Don't apologize for your comments, stick it in their face. America has become a nation addicted to government...a nation of victims. They need a courageous hero to tell them the unvarnished truth and lead them to rehab.
Mitt, be a truth teller. Jerusalem IS the capital of Israel. The Israeli people ARE remarkable. The Palestinians DON'T really want peace. And Obama's appeasement and apologies have led to a Middle East in flames, run by extremists who want to kill us. Yes, you outraged the media when you told these truths...but the American people know this is the truth, and respect you for saying so.
Here's the biggest truth to hammer home from now until Nov 6th. Obama tells lies. He can't help himself, he's a lawyer. His only talent is the ability to talk fancy. You know, the kind of lawyer who got O.J. Simpson off from murder. Lawyers tell you what you want to hear. They evade the truth. Obama has proven for 3 ½ years that fancy talk is a failure and a fraud.
What America needs is a can-do businessman and turnaround specialist...Someone who has a resume of accomplishment in the business world...Someone who has actually done something, built something...Someone who has recued failing companies...NOT a fancy talking lawyer.
Mitt, tell us the unvarnished truth. No sugar coating. Americans are ready to hear the truth. Don't apologize or moderate. Run towards the fire.
Remember Mitt, YOU ARE BULLWORTH AND THE TRUTH WILL SET US ALL FREE!
Wayne Allyn Root, a former Libertarian Vice Presidential nominee, is one of the most popular political and media stars in America. His columns and commentaries are read at the biggest political & news web sites in America- including FoxNews.com. He makes regular appearances at Fox News Channel, and hundreds of radio stations across the country. Wayne is a Capitalist Evangelist, entrepreneur and small businessman, home-school dad, best-selling author, and Tea Party Libertarian conservative. His web site: www.ROOTforAmerica.com
That's nice and all, but Ron Paul is the Bullworth of this election. It is and has been Ron Paul who tells the truth that people don't want to hear.
I want to encourage you to go to www.ROOTforAmerica.com and read more of Wayne Allyn Roots articles. He might just help you understand the urgency in this election. The truth shall set you free!
Start with this article - Major Political Announcement – Wayne Endorses Mitt Romney!
Then read this article - Why America’s Leading Libertarian is Endorsing Mitt Romney and Joining the GOP
Then this one - Obama Channeling FDR
then check out his archives!
I believe Mitt Romney and Ron Paul have a lot in common. Focus on those positives, Get on board to save AMERICA. I only wish Ron Paul would set aside his pride and endorse Mitt. At least he can support him on the things they AGREE on. And, then work out the other stuff after Mitt gets elected.
As I said in other posts on this topic, unless Romney does or says something to really piss me off, he'll most likely get my vote.
All the best to you!
I think that you are being fair in your understanding of the healthcare issues. But, I think we owe it to ourselves and our children to at least give MR the opportunity to prove himself. Many of us only know what we hear in the media about any of the candidates. But, honestly, after hearing MR's wife speak about him, my intuition says he is an honest man, full of integrity, willing to set aside his personal life to set this country straight. Mitt Romney has a heart for service which is something our current pres doesn't have. I honestly don't know alot about RP so I can't compare the two.
Again I appreciate your willingness to consider voting for Romney. I think he will be a terrific president.
Yes, you are somewhat correct in that WHEN THEY SPEAK, Romney and Ron Paul have a fair amount in common. However, one of the main differences (as I understand them) is that Romney wants to overturn Obamacare and REPLACE it with something else. Ron Paul would overturn Obamacare and NOT REPLACE it with something else. He would opt for a free market solution to health insurance like we currently have with car, life, homeowner, business, and other insurances. That right there is a huge difference.
But still the biggest issue is that I don't believe Romney will follow thru with his words whereas Ron Paul would. I don't trust Romney as far as I can throw him. He's flip-flopped more times on issues than a burger on a grill. At least Ron Paul is consistent, no flip-flopping there.
All the best to you.
I predict that if RP supporters throw their vote away, and as a result allows Obummer to sqeek by on his relelection bid, your party will be destroyed. All the bad things that happen for the next generation will be laid at your feet. Mark my words.
As for you, you will be just another faceless body in line for that government handout in order to feed yourself and family. Enjoy your Section 8 housing and government healthcare. Sorry, no free TV's either. Oh, before I forget, you've been denied cancer treatment again. You're just too old to be worth the expense. Make sure you drive that GM car. It will be required in order to collect your subsistance money.
Such a lovely life to look forward to.... all because you believed a false narrative about the guys on the other side. So sad...
Please. stop the hysterics. Obama’s re-election is not the shelling of Ft. Sumpter or the bombing of Pearl Harbor. America recovered just fine from the "dictatorship" of FDR. America will survive even another 4 years of Obama. And Bush, the last Republicrat to hold the office presided over 2 new wars, a doubling of the national debt, the creation of a huge new bureaucracy called Homeland Security, (BTW, all of which Paul Ryan casted his congressional voted for) and a totally crashed deregulated economy. Romney might well do no better. Politics is a long-term business of building coalitions and changing minds about policy.
I'm not a libertarian, but if romney/ryan can't give Ron Paul supporters a better reason to vote for them than "not obama" they are simply going to fail to attract their support.
From my conversations with Paul supporters they believe the problems we face are bigger than just one person, and in fact in many ways they are right. Many republicans are as much for big intrusive government as are many democrats.
Ryan blew a perfect opportunity to talk about bigger ideas such as freedom, liberty, Constitutionalism.....
I disagree! I think Paul Ryan explained very effectively why a vote for Ron Paul would not be a wise vote, basically he was saying a vote for Ron Paul was a vote for Obama. Without offending the person asking the question, he explained the things we have in common with Ron Paul and his followers. I think that is the more important choice, his comments will make that guy think about his decision.
I've said this before, these aren't my words, but I was told once when the comment came up that someone was voting for the "lessor of two evils", to think of it this way "you aren't voting for the lessor of two evils, you are voting for the one who will NOT allow more evil."
A vote for Ron Paul this year, is a vote for Obama... plain and simple. It means you didn't vote for the only guy who has a chance to beat Obama. Yes, you voted your conscience... you voted your values and made a statement. Lovely. If I wanted to throw my vote away, I'd vote for Allen West for President. It would make me feel good... but it would be a wasted vote.
You can almost think of this way... think of each vote as a meal. The candidate who gets the most meals survives and thrives. The one who gets the least... well, that political career dies. Feed Mitt and swallow your pride. I am... because the single MOST IMPORTANT thing we have to do in November is to defeat this monster... and a vote for anyone but Mitt, is a wasted vote and it will unleash the beast for 4 more years. And America will be the meal.
A vote for Ron Paul (or Gary Johnson or anybody else) is not a vote for Barack Obama, it is a vote for Ron Paul. Plain and simple. Only a vote for Barack Obama is a vote for Barack Obama.
Many of you derided Ron Paul supporters as inconsequential during the primary season. There are only a couple thousand of them, and they are all smoking weed in their parents' basements, remember? If they actually manage to stumble to the polls in a drug-induced fog this November, why does it matter who they vote for?
If Romney can't win without the Ron Paul supporters, he's got bigger problems to address...and so does the Republican Party.
I agree, the Republicans are the lesser evil... they are indeed nearly as corrupt as the Democrats. That's why I'm Independent and will support a 3rd party in 2016.
But for now, we have to defeat this monster in office. A vote for anyone other than Mitt Romney does not change a single thing. The monster will remain and America will die.
I'm not bad-mouthing Libertarians... you don't need the snarky undertone here. I agree with about 80% of their platform. But Gary Johnson or Ron Paul has exactly zero chance to win. Romney has a chance... but it may be a slim one, so we all need to vote to get Obama out first... then we can focus on a 3rd party in 2016.
Obama is even worse than we can express on this forum. Unfortunately, he is going to win Maryland, as this state is as true blue as they get. The last Republican to win MD was Ronald Reagan, and Romney is no Reagan.
Ron Paul supporters in swing states may have a tougher decision on what to do in November. My decision is simple...write in Ron Paul as I did in 2008, and have it not be counted, or vote for Gary Johnson who is actually on the ballot (and has positions on key issues much more in line with my own than Romney does).
I'd really like to see Johnson in the debates, but there is no way the DNC and RNC will allow that to happen. It would be eye-opening to many Americans how similar Obama and Romney would seem on a number of issues if Johnson participated.
Yeah, I hear ya brother. I was pretty rough a few months ago myself to Ron Paul supporters... mainly because I ran across a few supporters that frankly weren't very respectful or cordial... and I followed suit. I feel bad for some of my words. I actually have more in common with Libertarians than I do with Republicans now.
Mitt Romney may not win Maryland, especially if everyone doesn't pull for him. That is the same with every state - he'll need all the votes because the system is stacked against him. I personally don't care for him much but I will vote for him because Obama is really that bad.
For me, I would feel horrible if I voted for someone I really supported instead of the front-runner against Obama, and Obama won - but that's me. Vote as you wish and take care my friend.
I live in Maryland. Romney is not going to win Maryland. Period.
My characterization of those who derided RP supporters as inconsequential potheads was not directed specifically at you Sober, but the theme has been constant in this forum since I started reading it last fall. In fact, it's right here in this thread. See K-Bob's comment a little further down for example.
You are kidding right? Inflexible ideology is a one way ticket. Usually ends in dictatorships and massive hardships for all. History proves this to be true.
Look, there are two really big teams playing against each other, both far, far larger than the other guys. The other guys have zero chance of beating either of the big teams. It may not be fair or what you want. But it IS what it IS. Its the cards you have been dealt this time around.
The championship will only be won by one of the big teams. One of the big teams believes in America and its success. They are proud to BE Americans and are fighting for it. The other big team hates America, what it stands for, and is not proud of it. They want to tear it down and get rid of it.
Now, the WINNER of that game will directly impact your financial livelihood.
Team #1 gives you a chance, the beginnings of a chance really, to gain back all you lost during the previous four years, and that also has a promising set of policies that will, if given the chance, help make America strong again. This is ALSO the path for a chance to insert your ideas into the team and how it deals with the future.
Team #2 wants to continue pushing its failed ideas and policies. Incomes and freedom will continue to be attacked and eroded, and in the end you will have far less than you do now and far more uncertainty for the future. This path cares nothing about what you believe in and no amount of screaming and complaining will make them consider your ideas and how they would affect the future.
Those are your only two choices whether you like it or not. If you believe in the Constitution and this great nation then by that very same belief you have to vote for the team with the greatest chance of actually achieving some, or many of your desired goals. Common sense!
I am an avid reader of Thomas Paine. He understood what we were fighting for and what we as a fledgling nation were trying to achieve. The answers you seek to ease your mind and help you do the right thing are in his readings.
To borrow a famous phrase: "There can be only one."
I think you make a valid point. Romney is more like the frog to me in this fairy tale. He has the opportunity to be a prince...
Obama is obviously the dragon (which the bible associates with the devil). But I agree with you... Romney was thrust upon us and many of us didn't want him to be our knight in shining armor.
But it is what it is. All kidding aside, we either vote for Romney or we help Obama get re-elected. If this happens again in 2016 (we're stuck with a frog) when the best candidate doesn't rise to the top, then it's time for a 3rd party because freedom will completely be dead at that point.
Thanks for your response.
The good news is that the more those in power squeeze in attempts to keep their control, the more people will awaken to their tyrannical ways and the entrenched powers will lose their grip. The bad news is that the likelihood of a mass awakening happening fast enough to avert a catastrophic collapse into full totalitarianism is unlikely.
Here is an excellent interview (both video and transcript of interview included) with the author of The Creature From Jekyll Island, G. Edward Griffin. I highly recommend everyone in this forum read it, if for no other reason to gain a better understanding of where many if not most Ron Paul supporters are coming from.
They are sacrificing the new blood to preserve the old. If the new comers were supportive of the status quo, then they would be welcomed in with open arms. There is an information explosion going on politically, and many more people are seeing a different picture than government/media presents, and its being done through alternative media. We are seeing new attacks on internet freedom all the time. The establishment has to control it, or lose ground. Both parties will pass internet regulation. Mark my words on that. Most of the primary fraud was reported via handycam or 4G phones.
People hunger for a candidate that they can trust, and that stands firm on what they believe. The problem is that their hunger leads them to support compromise candidates. Conservatives need to reject the Romney's of politics completely, or the word "conservative" loses its salt entirely.
Right. The actions of both the Romney campaign and the RNC really marginalized a lot of young, new people to the Party. If Obama wins, it will be because the GOP committed suicide by alienating these newcomers to an otherwise aging and floundering Party. Very shortsighted IMO.
I don't think that everyone has the same idea about what the "dragon" is, or what the kingdom should be.
Many now see the establishment as being the dragon. If this is the case, then party bickering is only a distraction for the masses.
Those who are still stuck in party politics just shoot at illusions, while those who target the establishment have real meat to sink their political arrows into.
Romney is the establishment pick who was forced on us through election fraud in the primary process. He is funded by the same financial institutions that elected Obama. His whole track record is liberal at best.
How is voting for Romney supposed to have any effect in slaying the dragon? Who is the dragon? Are we not just voting for who is to be the next dragon?
Maybe if Johnson gets ten times the votes as the last Libertarian candidate, people will take notice and move over as well. Romney has stopped the flow of new Republicans coming in, because he offers nothing new, or bold. Those who are freedom minded, or fiscally conservative, have no candidate. Those who think that these are the two biggest issues that will ultimately decide the fate of the US, have no discernible contrast to vote for or against in the two parties, and for president.
Well, you may be right... but I don't hear the DNC platform talking about smaller government or the Democrats hinting that they'll cut spending. There are other points... but it's not worth debating.
If Obama wins, this country is done. If Mitt wins, we'll at least slow the bleeding. Vote for Paul or Johnson or anyone else and that vote will most likely have no bearing on this election at all. It's like wasting a bullet - and no, I'm not condoning violence.
And I mean no disrespect but if you think a Libertarian candidate is going to win in 2012, then I don't think you're being honest with yourself.
"Both teams do have their problems... but for right now, only one of them shares some beliefs with Libertarians and only that same team has a chance to stop this monster."
This just isn't true. The Republicans are perhaps modestly closer on economic issues -- although a "plan" to balance the budget some decades out is little short of laughable. But there is almost no overlap on social issues, on which the Democrats could more accurately claim some "shared beliefs" with libertarians. The recent record of both Democrats and Republicans on civil-liberty issues isn't even worth discussion; they both appear unfamiliar with the very concept.
Both teams do have their problems... but for right now, only one of them shares some beliefs with Libertarians and only that same team has a chance to stop this monster.
Let's slay the dragon first (so to speak) and then rebuild the kingdom.
The analogy has devolved into hyperbole. But I have greater respect for those historical figures who stood on their principles than I do for those who made expedient -- but Faustian -- compromises.
So you are voting for someone who won't matter at the end of the day. Lovely!
You have given up completely. Bravo for you. Giving up is not fighting, and its not about "standing on moral principles". Its about quitting, taking your ball and going home. Its cowardly and selfish. Sacrifie the many for the few. Very small minded....
True Americans never give up.... we fight for the greater good for all.
While I resent having too, I'll fight the battles you're unwilling too. Somone has too....
I can assure you my mind is at perfect ease.
The problem is that both team #1 and team #2 are playing for the same owner, and that owner is not the American people.
I'll be voting for Gary Johnson. Before you go crazy, I will let you know that I live in Maryland, which Obama will win handily.
Best of luck to you.
I am willing to face my foes, and give my life so others may live free. The fewer willing to do the same allows our real foes a greater opportunity to win.
Look back in history at some of the wars. Note how many nations, who would otherwise be enemies, joined forces to defeat a far more deadly enemy. Quite a few went on to become allies....
Maybe that anology will help you do the correct thing.
You stand a far, far greater chance of achieving your desired goals working together with those who also love this great country. Together we may overcome that hate filled party and its leader. Maybe along the way we learn a thing or two from each other.....
It's not a bad analogy, except that few libertarians see the teams the way you characterize them. I see two teams continuing to push their failed ideas and policies. Incomes and freedoms will continue to be attacked and eroded by both of them, and in the end I will have far less than I do now and far more uncertainty for the future. What on earth would make me choose one over the other?
You may disagree with the perspective, but that is the perspective that needs to be addressed. A threat of "Obama will win" is not a threat at all when the alternative is "Romney will win."
Given the choice of firing squad or hanging ... I'll take the small chance that exists by leaping over the side of the building at the first chance I get.