The Right Scoop
What is really amazing is how for more than 10 years these people in the media keep saying 11-12 million illegals (PC undocumented immigrants) aliens the number never changes. There are probably more than 40~50 millions illegals now, yet they, the media, don't want to say it.
I live and work in Japan (on a visa) but I don't want to become a Japanese citizen so why does Congress always offer citizenship to illegals in the US when talking about immigration?
Double talking fraud. I read his speech and I know what he said. This man is just like his father throwing shite up against the wall, whatever sticks sticks and whoever listens listens. He's trying to be everything to everyone and so when you do that you're not principled. Don't care how many Paul supporters claim that he is-- he's not. His grandparents spoke 2 languages. who cares? My grandparents were from Italy and my grandfather prohibited my mother from speaking Italian in the home. Why? He wanted her to fully assimilate to the culture of America and speak English. He can go to hell with his multi lingual nonsense. English should be the primary language of this society and I'm afraid he believes that an eventual Tower of Babel is okay to have in America. I'm sorry no go. "I’ve never met a new immigrant looking for a free lunch." Oh yeah? Go visit an emergency room soon and see if you still think that. Also, it's been noted that many Hispanics are pro Occupy Wall Street. What about all of the Latino radical groups like LaRaza and Mecha? Yeah, what he and the other idiots are proposing is not amnesty, yeah, okay....and Romney didn't pass the prototype for Obama care in Massachusetts....it's really not the same thing....yeah...mmmkay. OF COURSE it's amnesty since Obama has downgraded immigration violations to a secondary offense the equivalent to not buckling your seat belt when you're driving and that means only those who violate a “real” law face possible deportation. He hasn't learned anything from his father. He should shut his mouth, he doesn't know what he's talking about.
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I have a question. Why do our representatives hate the citizens who vote for them so much. This will cost 2.6 trillion according to some estimates and end the GOP. They're cutting their own throats.
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Let's be clear: only the Democrat party cares about a "path to citizenship" and eventual D-voters.
But to the aliens themselves, voting in America in a decade matters ZERO. The big magnet for them is the work permit NOW which is what all amnesty plans promise. "Legalization" is another term for the same instant amnesty that illegal aliens crave.
http://www.limitstogrowth.org/articles/2013/03/12/amnesty-plans-keep-magnet-in-place/
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Oh boy it gets worse...
http://www.vdare.com/posts/rand-paul-has-reneged-on-birthright-citizenship-too
If our politicians do not think that Americans deserve the following: culture,language or borders then what precisely is the point? We are witnessing a cultural Aushwitz perpetuated against the Americans....remember those people?
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After reading this thread. I see some of the Paulbots arrived and try to convince me that I am wrong to not support him. After seeing the way they debate and the sarcastic and sneering and condescending tone they take to anyone that questions their Dear Leader... I can only say... They had the opposite effect they desired and drove me much further away from Rand then I might have moved. If this is the level of support and the kind of support he musters... I want no part of it. He is NO Conservative... He needs to stop pretending to be one!!
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@WolfieUSA I can appreciate your concerns and there are certain Paul supporters that end up being sarcastic and divisive and I wish they would stop and grow up, because their behavior does drive people away and I doubt that either Paul would respect that. That said, if you've witnessed the way the media and other conservatives have treated their guy over the years, it's not hard to see why some of them react that way. You can say what you want about whatever disagreements you have with Sr. Paul but the guy has delivered over 4000 babies and any person that values human life should at least respect that. Not all Ron supporters like Rand because he doesn't come off as bold of a libertarian as the old man does which is why he has such great appeal to the conservative grassroots as well as media personalities like Cavuto, Rush, Hannity, Ingraham, Levin and Miller to name a few. Also, that's why the likes of McCain, Graham and Rove don't look highly upon him. From the people that are visible and becoming new leaders in the GOP, Rand is easily rising to the top despite certain comments on a blog site. I probably liked half of what I heard from Romney and zero from Obama but I like upwards of 90% of what Rand says. You'll never get a politician that you'll 100% agree with so don't bother.
Rand is calling for the budget to be balanced in 5 years, he's called for all foreign aid to be stopped especially starting with countries that talk smack about us, he's pushing for a full Federal Reserve audit to see where the banksters are ripping off the middle class and printing money to cover their debt on our backs, his office returned $1.1 million to the treasury in savings that they didn't waste of the taxpayer's money, he spent 13 hours filibustering executive power to protect all of our due process rights, he lambasted Sec Clinton for her lack of leadership in the Benghazi scandal, he's also been trying to get the abusive TSA off our backs among many other issues he's fighting for. I'm sorry that's not conservative enough for you.
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@KenDeBreeze @WolfieUSA I was an independent looking at Paul Rand. Amnesty quells my vote for Rand Paul, and before the finger pointing and name calling begins I'll say it is because it simply tips MY scale back in favor of others.
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See now Ken, that was a well reasoned argument that I can and did read and respect. Now if more Paul supporters were as willing to engage like you have, we'd have far less arguments and perhaps begin to understand each other's positions on some issues better. Rand is conservative on many issues, but then on drugs and borders and national defense. We part ways. I would take a Rand Paul over an NObama any day of the week and I ran as an ABO voter (Anyone But OBama) in the election. Paul supporters stayed away in droves and helped contribute to NObama winning a second term. They put petty politics ahead of the good of the nation and that's another issue I have with them.
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Can somebody please explain to me WHY THE H*LL AMERICANS NEED TO GIVE AWAY THEIR COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE?
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I can't disagree more with the many comments posted by westskier11. When Wolf Blitzer directly asked if his plan would eventually lead these 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants, if they do all the right things (starts about 1 minute in video), to become citizens Paul's answer was "interestingly yes." He also stated he's was willing to speeding up the illegal immigration line.
Here is a transcript of Sen. Paul's to the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. It was released by the Kentucky Republican’s Senate office.
It's just my opinion, but I think Paul knowing the gang of eight would release their plan in early April combined with what every member in Republican in Congress must have known regarding the RNC's focus groups and survey's, was eager to support an immigration plan of his own. Potential contender's for the GOP's presidential nomination in 2016 such as Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush have already stated their support for immigration reform.
Thus, this has become a political battle for Republicans and I'm very disappointed that there doesn't appear to be one Republican that's willing to stand up and say NO. If the GOP believes that this will help them garner greater support among the Hispanic community, I believe they're sadly mistaken. This has always been a Democratic issue and emulating liberals and progressives is not a winning strategy.
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@Conservator1 From where I am sitting it looks to me that Rand is using the strategy of the Obama team to an extent but he is also unwittingly playing into Obama's and Democrat hands. They are more than happy when they set Republicans to one upping each other and with each one up they move further to the left. In their eyes it's a win-win.
@Laurel A @Conservator1 Actually what Rand is doing is hedging against the democratic playbook with this plan. Union labor doesn't want an extended guest worker program. We do need to streamline our immigration so it doesn't take upwards of 10 years for those looking for freedom or opportunities to find a home. Those that are illegal aren't put in front of those that are seeking immigration status legally and all of this is contingent on Congress approving that the border becomes closed and then there's a window of opportunity for those illegals that want to eventually become citizens to declare and then get to the back of the line. Those that don't will still be deported and the border patrol and customs will continue to do their job. In order to get info on these illegals is to grant work visas to them and then we'll know more about them and they will be paying taxes and social security instead of not. All the while we've been dragging our heels on immigration, it went from a few million to well over 12 million. Rand's plan is the best that doesn't grant amnesty. Keep in mind that there are many insiders that fear Rand because he's so conservative and can't be bought off and they'll muddy the waters and misdirect people away from him by distorting his positions so here's the real nuts and bolts of his proposal as analyzed by Hot Air: http://hotair.com/archives/2013/03/19/rand-pauls-immigration-plan-border-security-before-probationary-legal-status/
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@KenDeBreeze @Laurel A @Conservator1 Most of what you have written is speculation and opinion. The sheer fact that they remain on US soil is amnesty...pure and simple. They kicked in the back door and crashed on through and we are rewarding them for it. You don't think those waiting in line in their home countries wouldn't like to be on US soil? Really???!!!
The tax pledge part of your little scenario is a myth. Illegal immigrants not only don't pay taxes but they take out an additional $19,000 per immigrant per year. If they are skilled enough to have to actually pay taxes then that pops that balloon about how we need low skilled workers to 'do the j0ob Americans won't do'. There income levels, if they indeed are what they proclaim won't require taxes paid into the system. Where and what happened to the 'poor immigrant just wanting a better life' storyline? the poor don't pay taxes in this country, plus they actually get what is known as the Earned Income Tax Credit.
As the Aunt of someone who immigrated legally and is still waiting to be allowed to work for four almost five years, after paying over $25,000, why isn't he legalized now? why isn't that being handled efficiently? Why under those circumstances could we ever expect the government to handle anything in regards to immigration efficiently?
I have read the Hot Air column and it is hot air. Try reading the studies from the Center for Immigration Studies or go to Numbers USA, they have some as well. Rand's plan is smoke and mirrors and the bottom line is as long as illegals stay on US soil it's amnesty and it's rewarding bad behavior while undermining the rule of law. And I gotta ask why in the hell would we want to give Congress control of the border and yet another political football to pander with?
Rand's plan is nonsense and pandering., nothing more. What Rand says and what the applications and implications of his plan are two very different things. Rand can explain to me why my nephew coughed up $25,000 and counting but illegals broke the law and are being rewarded. I wonder if he would mind if I came in the back door of his home and helped myself.
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Well said. I'm disappointed in him... Then all the Paulbots turn up and reinforce why I was an idiot to put any faith in him in the first place! Do you notice every time they show up, arguments and insults start flying (99% from them) and provoking us.
Have they no website of their own where they can discuss things without bothering us? It might be just me... or is it?
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@Conservator1 @WolfieUSA @12grace
Thanks very much for that follow up! Very interesting reading!
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@WolfieUSA @12grace @Conservator1 I forgot to post this yesterday, but with friends like this, we all shouldn't trust the Senator - progressive opinion writer at the Washington Post, Dana Milbank.
"...For the moment, I am Standing with Rand on one leg only; his isolationist foreign policy and his calamitous plan to eliminate federal deficits in five years make it imprudent to jump in with both feet. But consider:
On Tuesday, Paul endorsed a version of immigration reform that would allow the 11 million or so undocumented immigrants in this country to become legal.
Last week, he outlined an idea that would end government discrimination against gay marriage..."
Is this what conservatives have too look forward to?
@rocco11 @moderator There's a few more posts in this thread that you should take a serious look at. :-(
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@MeanGreenBeret @WolfieUSA @joyfulgiver @rocco11
If I could... I would. I'm disappointed his post is still visible at least an hour after it appeared. I suppose it's this new system, but comments like that have to go, or all the family friendly people will go instead. We can be abused like that anywhere.
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There's a website you will all enjoy. It's called Numbers USA. You can see what any bill in question says. Who wrote it. A Grade point for your Congressman and Senators. After joining your Congressman and Senators will be listed for you to use each time you want to send them a fax. You can use the fax they've prepared and add to it or write your own. When you access the home page they have displayed all the action items to choose from. A really big plus is the ease of use and viewing this site has employed. Hope you check it out.
https://www.numbersusa.com/content/my/action/board
The Amnesty fax is ready to send so you can ask your Congressman and Senators to not support it.
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Rand's plan is about the most sensible plan there is right now. It gives congress the authority to decide when the borders are "secured". Stop the tidal wave, enforce quotas, then we'll talk about those currently here.
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Why should we reward people that are in our country, illegally? If they get to stay here, they will if they haven't already, they will bring their families, so they pay few taxes while their entire families collect welfare and social services.
Besides that they are taking jobs away from "legal citizens".
This is blatantly unfair.
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@cabensg @westskier11 Yeah, I feel the same way. I remember "Deem and pass" all too well.
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@westskier11 implicit in the word "sensible" is the word "sense". And it simply does not make any.
@stage9 @westskier11 Rand is leagues ahead of the rest of the FOX-pushed candidates. This is no reason to give up the guy that actually gives a damn about our rights and the constitution.
Of course the backward SOCons will look for anything to dismiss Rand, while in the same breath defending Rubio and Perry. Hypocrites, all of you.
The Amnesty wave cannot be stopped, but it must be slowed down. Rand is the best guy we got.
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@WolfieUSA @K-Bob Heh. Let's say I've been tempered. I welcome their input, if it's rational, non-antagonistic debate. But so many of them just come in here firing the usual spitballs.
I commend you brother... I'd be a lot less tolerant and have burned those posts already... I guess that's why you're a moderator and I'm not! :-)
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@westskier11 @K-Bob @PeterLeaman1 We've all heard that song before. The old, "rules for rational debate = bias" mantra. Total yawner. This is a moderated site. If you don't like the rules, find a site you like and hang out there.
@12grace I agree. I am not too fond that Rand decided to jump onto the immigration bandwagon. Ill Im saying is that his plan is the best one out there, and much much better than the GOPs and Rubio's.
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Amnesty can be stopped by a government that has the will to stop it. I like Rand in so many ways but I adamantly disagree with him on this issue.
@stage9 @westskier11 I find it amusing that you decry Rand for "isolationalism" (assuming you know what the literal definition is) while saying stuff like this : "[Libertarians]The best advice is to just stay clear of them entirely."
I'd say youre the isolationist. Us constitutionalists want to limit the federal government. You just want one of your guys in power.
@K-Bob @PeterLeaman1 What a broad statement, coming from the site that is essentially libeling people such as Paul. Essentially anyone who "veers" from the talking point mantra of the day is deemed "abusive". I wasnt even a diehard RP supporter a year ago and yet I remember the banning of anyone who challenged the Santorum slobbering. Its something that the "moderator" (see below) has a opinionated conservational stake while supposedly "moderating". Its called bias and selectively, something us conservatives are supposed to enjoy and be liberated from.
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@PeterLeaman1 @K-Bob He just declared a longtime commenter on this site to be a low information conservative, in scare quotes, no less. Prior to that he claimed conservatives who do not want Rand's plan to be hypocrites. Ergo the warning. You guys need to take a look at the Comment Policy.
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@K-Bob He wasn't bashing conservatives. He was bashing people who say they are conservatives and believe in the limitation of the constitution, but then speak otherwise.
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Confine your remarks to the topic or ideas brought up. If you want to bash Conservatives or make personal attacks, go to some other site.
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@westskier11 @stage9 So, what you're suggesting that what they say on video isn't what they believe in fact? Are they schizophrenic?
When Ron Paul told the entire world during the primaries that Iran had the right to obtain a nuclear weapon and it was none of our business (despite the fact that they threatened us); he didn't really mean that? I'm just misinformed?
Maybe I'm just wrong on my definition of "low information", because apparently it doesn't align with yours.
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@stage9 @westskier11 Yep, just as I thought, a low information "conservative". I bet you support the gun-banning Ben Carson over Rand Paul. You need some talking head to tell you how to think.
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@westskier11 @stage9 I wouldn't know what Fox pushes. I don't watch it. Stopped watching it when they got behind Obamney.
And we don't have to "look for anything" in order to dismiss Rand, he and his father do a fine job of dismissing themselves without our help.
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I am thoroughly confused....you have to "get in line", but you don't have to leave the country to "get in line"??
HUH?
I thought the point of the whole "getting in line" process presupposed that you would LEAVE THE COUNTRY.
Otherwise, you're not "in line", you're "IN COUNTRY" and you thereby negate the whole "getting in line" concept.
Maybe I'm just not as well versed in revolving politi-speech.
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@stage9 Congress and Rand presuppose that the goal is to become a citizen when it has been proven over and over again that isn't the case. the actual definition of what illegals are doing is squatting...AND THAT IS BY DESIGN.
@Laurel A @57thunderbird @stage9 Agreed and if we want a flavor of what's to come all we have to do is look at California where the invasion has the highest numbers. I'll tell you who I don't blame and that's the illegals. Liberal Democrats are the ones who gave us this problem just like all the other problems we now face concerning our government and other institutions.
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@57thunderbird @Laurel A @stage9 It is of a sort. They are squatting and we all know how that works out. The plan is to gain ground by attrition throuhg overwhelming numbers.
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