When it's a Mexican Mafia soldier wielding the gun he got courtesy of Obama and his lackey Holder, it's "violent criminal behavior". When it's a Jihadist US Army shrink shouting "'Allah Akbar!", it's "workplace violence". When it's anyone else (read: white, or "white Hispanic" in Zimmerman's case), it's an opportunity to further erode the Second Amendment.....
Just had an interesting question hypothesis to pose:
So, by inference, there's no reason to want to ban private gun ownership because it's behavioral issues that lead to gun violence? I would bet this bozo is a real anti-NRA liberal (or is that hypocrite?).
All the Democrats who support Eric Holder or even Obama's use of Executive Privilege have Officer Terry's blood on their hands.
So Steny that Blows your whole Gun Control argument out of the water. Because it was guns in the hands of people, or too many guns, not the fact that bad people get a hold of them and kill people.
The old Maryland ambulence chaser never disappoints does he? He makes Lunch Bucket Joe look like a genious.
Of course the snivelling Hoyer avoids the fact that Holder and maybe even his boss put the gun in the hands of the criminals that killed agent Terry and at least two hundred others. Yes, Stenny, people kill not weapons but giving the people the weapons is called aiding and abetting and is considered the same offense as pulling the trigger.
And you democrats nurture and encourage that violent criminal behavior by not enforcing the immigration laws and securing the borders. You can't have it both ways Hoyer. Try as you may - the grownups see and hear your hypocrisy loud and clear. And, we despise it. DESPISE it.
So you find the less than 1% of gun-owners who use them for criminal purposes and load them up with 700 assault rifles?
You're right, guns don't kill people. People, who knowingly give guns to people who kill people, kill people.
They have a word for that you know, accomplices.
Moral of the story is, don't give Jack the Ripper a knife set for Christmas and act surprised when someone ends up dead.
This line of thinking is just idiotic. This talking point comes up along with Pat Tillman and the coverup following that. So... my response to the Tillman line/Terry would have died anyway line is this:
Pat Tillman was fighting a war and odds are he would have been killed by unfriendly fire, so who really cares if there was a coverup regarding friendly fire.
The lefties don't like that line of reasoning regarding Tillman and really don't like the correlation I make between the two...
if the jackasses would stop and do their jobs to get docs form holder we'll find out the truth. jackasses are talking out of their butts to protect who is repondsable. terry was killed by illegals crosing arizona border with guns link to fast and furious. the same illegals that obama is protecting from getting deported. maybe obama's plan is to let all this illegals to come to arizona and kill more of our citizens. how would the mexicans welcome all this illegals to come to their homes and steal, rape, kidnap and kill their families?
Um, OK, so if you gave a known terrorist on the no-fly list a ticket and a bomb, and he blew up an airplane, you'd say it's the PERSON who is responsible and you would have no blood on your hands?
I realize a liberal's mind is not capable of understanding common sense, but if you insist on citing the pro-2nd Amendment argument that it's not the guns that kill but the people themselves, then great. You liberals can leave our 2nd Amendment alone and never even mention gun control again!
However, Holder, Obama and everyone else who LIED TO CONGRESS are not off the hook. They need to GO TO JAIL for contempt, just like any of us would if we had done the same. Lying to Congress is a crime, period.
Well if guns did not kill Brian Terry, criminal activity did. Then the war on the second amendment is over. Guns stay in the hands of citizens. Time to reload.
Another fact, whenever a nation has fallen into the hands of communism, the first line of action is to disarm the citizens of that country. Not everyone was asleep in history class! Fast and Furious was not about helping Mexico, it was about setting up a crisis to push through gun legislation that would take way our 2nd Amendment right. They know it and that is why those documents are being locked up and the Dem party is parading these loons to try to defend and deflect our knowledge of it! Gun laws mean nothing to criminals, just as law in general means nothing to them. Fast and Furious is a scandal that far surpasses Watergate, however where is the cry of impeachment? The Dems have proven that they have sunk into progressive socialism and should be purged from every branch of government for this!
Fact is, Mr. Hoyer, the POTUS and the DOJ armed those criminals with the intent of creating a crisis in order to take guns away from law-abiding citizens! What a pathetic group of imbeciles the Dems are putting on display to attempt to justify the unjustifiable! November can't get here soon enough!
Washington provided them with the guns Steny, the people aren't stupid! Just don't even open your mouth!
If we can create regulations to keep guns out of the hands of Mexican drug lords and other criminals, then deaths will be averted.
Government programs intentionally putting guns in the hands of criminals don't kill people. Criminals who receive guns from the government kill people.
This coming from the same person who blamed Palin's cross-hairs for the shooting of Gabby Giffords and not the person who pulled the trigger.
Astonishing how dems will adjust their principals to match the narrative of the day.
Uh, where are these jackasses when gun owners say that guns don't kill....people do? .....which is exactly right. I don't blame the guns for killing hundreds of Mexicans and Terry. He is right. However, I do blame Obama and Holder for being the suppliers of the guns knowing that the people they gave them to would go on a killing spree.
Representative Steny Hoyer is correct, there are criminals on both sides of the border. In this case the people who allowed the guns to walk into Mexico without concern on how they would be used and the people who used them.
The people at ATF that were responsible need to be punished.
Yeah, but the ATF was following orders. They surely weren't filled in on the details and assumed it was a legitimate operation. Those that complained were told to do it or lose their job. The real criminals here are Holder, Obama and Hillary.
No, ATF has a history of doing things on their own. However I do tend to agree that someone high up in the present administration knew about this mess while it was going on. I do not find it hard to believe that this so called program was put together to use to promote additional gun control.
Possibly approved. I have no doubt that he knew about it before he heard about it in the media(I don't think he watches Fox that much) But the idea would fit right in with his agenda, hidden or otherwise.
Lol, that's true.
Holder: Mr. President, what can we do to give a boost to our anti-gun agenda?
Obama: Um, uh, er, ....uh....where's my teleprompter?
He may not have planned it but (I believe) he was definitely behind it.
With all due respect, from what I have seen I don't think Obama could plan a tea party for a three year old. On the other hand, he would gladly go along with the plans of others that further his far left beliefs.
That's true. I guess it's possible that she just spread the lie without knowing about what Obama was doing with F&F. I still believe Obama knew....and planned it.
They have been telling lies about the guns used in Mexico since this group came into office. It is just another excuse for back door gun control.
Both Obama and Hillary have a long record of being anti-firearms/second amendment.
The only reason I include Hillary is because she was right along with Obama claiming that the Mexican drug cartels get most of their guns from U.S. gun shops. She knew something was up because the fact is their claim was a lie.
That point makes a lot of sense. The only area that I have a problem is blaming Hillary Clinton at this point. Obama, I will be very interested in finding out when he became aware.
As far as using Fast and Furious to gin up public support for more gun control legislation, it would not surprise me if this administration were that stupid.
They all seem to forget the basic rule of conspiracy, "Three people can keep a secrete if two of them are dead."
Not only do I not find it hard to believe, I do believe that's what they did. Obama and Hillary were all over the news blaming our gun shops for the violence in Mexico and were talking about gun control. Then there was a story blaming a certain gun shop owner for this sale, but we know the truth to that lie. He was ordered to sell the guns by the ATF. It was a frame job, no doubt in my mind.
Wait so when they dont want to take responsibility for their own actions then it is people that kill people with guns, but when it is an R on the hot seats it is the guns fault. Nice.
The left really have to contort themselves to justify this clearly criminal program aimed at subverting the Constitution.
Let see if I can follow Stalineny Hoyer's logic:
Illegally arming foreign murderous narco-terrorists to create mayhem and death, so you can use said mayhem and death to campaign against the 2nd amendment rights of law abiding citizens is acceptable. And, the subsequent death of a U.S. border patrol agent is "tragic", because in essence "guns don't kill people, people kill people".
However, law abiding citizens must have their Constitutional right to keep and bear arms usurped and abrogated, because "guns kill people".
Hoyer defending guns? that's new.Guns don't kill people.
Criminals minds (obama&Holder) on bothsides of the border caused the violent behavior by allowing guns to walk into the hands of Mexican Drug Lords and the Mexican Mafia.
I love the Left Wing idiots. When it's convenient, "guns kill people", but when it's not, "people kill people". Double-talking, corrupt idiots.
Thats correct Hoyer and the criminal activity started in the AG office of the United States of America at the behest of his boss Obama.
Yeah, we have criminals in government giving private sector foreign criminals weapons, which have been used to kill people, including Brian Terry.
What's new? Our CIA gave hundreds of millions to the taliban and armed them, and now they are being used to kill our soldiers.
So, a second amendment-hating democrat is using an argument he disdains, rejects, abhors, and detests, as his main defense argument. Is there such a thing as a hyper-crite, or is hypocrite as strong as that moniker gets? I want a stronger word than hypocrite but I don't know what that word is. I might have to invent one. What we have here in the democrat party, are feral pigs circling the wagons around their own. What else is new?
I've seen lefty media potato heads, including Shep Smith repeat the maggot eaten mantra that there is "no evidence at all that Holder or Obama knew about or directed Fast and Furious." Why is there no evidence? Is it because Mr. Holder is withholding it? Is it because Obama is helping him withhold it? Surely these two are above reproach right? No, they are beneath contempt. Contempt. The US Attorney General in contempt. It's like a master bricklayer building his house out of straw isn't it? Well, that house is going to burn down, with his own match.
Steny might have a stent leading to his brain which has collapsed, starving his brain of oxygenated blood. He might also have a hole in his heart, a slit in his soul, and a bunch of commies for colleagues. Despicable.
Nite folks :-(
Whatever the outcome with Holder, just the fact that the Left used this argument lends Democrat acceptance to the concept and could never be discounted when used by second amendment advocates. In this case it could have been any gun used to kill Brian Terry, that's not the point. The point is not what gun here but how was it made available and how did it wind up in the killers hands. Now multiply this tragedy by the thousands of guns allowed to walk and the magnitude of the level of ignorance and criminality starts to be understood.
If this winds up in the Oval Office or at Holders feet, to paraphrase Biden, "this is a big ******* deal."
The truth is Brian Terry was killed because Eric Holder likely in conjunction with the White House, implemented Fast & Furious which resulted in thousands of weapons crossing the border into Mexico and weapon(s) from that program turned up at the crime scene of Border Patrol agent Brian Terry, who died as a direct result of Fast & Furious.
Steny Hoyer should be ashamed of himself for trying to divert the responsibility away from Eric Holder and the Justice Department. Yes, guns kill people because people use guns irresponsibly. If Fast & Furious was never implemented, Brian Terry would not have died. It was because of the fact that Fast & Furious WAS implemented that Brian Terry ended up dead from a weapon found at the scene that was directly linked to the Fast & Furious operation. Therefore, Eric Holder and possibly others within the in-Justice Department and possibly the White House itself, are culpable in the death of Brian Terry because they approved the Fast & Furious program, which resulted in 4,000+ weapons flooding into Mexico with little oversight and resulted in the deaths of hundreds of innocent Mexican citizens and US Border Patrol agent Brian Terry by those very same weapons.
The American people deserve to know the "truth" regarding Fast & Furious and for those responsible to be held accountable. Eric Holder is not above the law and neither is Barack Hussein Obama. The Justice Department is acting like a criminal organization in their attempt to cover up the truth from the American people and Brian Terry's family. It is unconscionable and reprehensible and more importantly criminal for Eric Holder to lie under oath to Congress and in his refusal to turn over documents that would get to the bottom of the Fast & Furious debacle. Because of Eric Holder's refusal to cooperate with Congress, it is very apparent that Eric Holder has something to hide. Something so significant that he does not want Congress or the American people to know about. Something so scandalous that Barack Obama at the eleventh hour claimed an illegal executive privilege to try and prevent the truth about Fast & Furious from getting out.
Why on Earth any Democrat in his or her right mind would continue to try and make excuses and cover for this corrupt administration is beyond belief and utterly illogical. And Democrats do so at their own peril I might add. That includes Steny Hoyer. Especially if Steny Hoyer votes not to hold Eric Holder in contempt of Congress. It is a sad sad day in America when our elected officials are more concerned about "covering up" the truth than they are about getting to the bottom of this scandal so that the truth might be revealed and those responsible held accountable. I suppose that's why Democrats are losing the confidence of the American people and no doubt why Barack Hussein Obama will likely lose in November in a landslide to Mitt Romney.
Washington D.C. is structured in such as way that all politicians protect each other, and regarless of party affiliation. The two parties are not actually ideologically very much different, they just put up a public show of opposition to gain power within their perspective parties. Its just a control struggle. Occasionally, they have to throw someone under the bus to satisfy the party base on one side or the other. If they did not, then they would lose their base entirely, and therefor their hold on power within the system. They have to limit the parties to the two that we have, otherwise a loss of the base on either side is detrimental to continuing their agenda together. The two party dictatorship has two big fears, which are a loss of their base, and a real grass roots third party that will not work within their dictatoral constructs.
I have just described the establishment in D.C. Romney will be just as much of an establishment president as Obama was. He will be forced to pander to the republican base, but his actions will be more of the same, that we are getting now, and have had for a long time. Bush left the borders open just as well, though he did assign a few national guardsmen, which had no appreciable effect. Though his policies in regard to actions taken with the cartels was more guarded, there is no way of knowing what all was actually done at this time.
Situations like this tend to perpetually deteriorate until it reaches crisis status, and then government will be "forced" to take away more of our rights.
Needless to say, I have no hope for any substancial change in the next four years.
It's unclear from the article whether or not Steny Hoyer used Brian Terry's name or not since his words are not in quotes. Democrats have been avoiding using his name.
Hoyer is right about the violent criminal behavior, between violent drug cartels and a criminal presidential cartel agent Terry didn't have a chance.
The guns linked to the botched “Fast and Furious” gun-walking program did not kill U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry, Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) said Tuesday — people did. …
Bingo!!!! They got that right!!! Hey, guns don't kill people but people do!! Everybody should remember these lines from the Democrat Party every time We, the People keep telling them about the 2nd amendment. Darn! They just twisted themselves into a pretzel to what could amount to supporting the Right to bear arms.
That the Justice Department used and abused its authority to arm criminals to perpetrate their criminal behavior onto innocent people is a half truth. Mexicans and Americans died due to much more than a criminal behavior, they died because that was the intent of Fast and Furious - to arm killers that so they actually use those guns!
If this was a fictitious movie, the DOJ and ATF would be charged for being accomplices!! But this is the real world, we have yet to see justice served.
He is confusing things...a lot. When you put guns into the hands of known killers, killings occur. Brian Terry's death was a tragedy. What were the 200+ Mexican deaths, a statistic? People are not killers. Killers are. See the difference?
I'll wager that in those documents Congress is trying to view, is evidence that neither Holder nor Obama gave a flying fig about Mexican citizens. Killings will necessarily skyrocket, right? It would turn the Mexican vote so against him, it would make the Reagan landslide election look mild compared to what would happen to O' were they released.
Oh yeah, it will embarrass the USA... but guess what? Obama is not the USA. His actions do not even remotely resemble the USA which I grew up in. Let it hit the fan. He is not us and we are not him.
You describe an important contrast, and in many cases hypocrisy. There have been tens of thousands of people killed on the border just in the last ten years. There have been a few Americans, and many Mexicans killed. The cartels kill civic leaders that don't comply with their rule. Our government and the media use the American deaths for all kinds of political tactics, yet we see very little indignation about the Mexican lives that are lost. We cannot solve their problems anymore than we have been solving ours, yet we are directly tied to their problems.
The overwhelming power of the drug cartels in Mexico only exists because of our use of illegal drugs. If abolition works to correct immoral behavior, and the drug war works in stopping the flow of drugs, then we could honestly consider the loss of life as being part of doing a righteous thing, but if we know that the tactics are phylosophically and practically flawed, then we continue this abolition and drug war unrighteously.
The welfare system, which is funded by our money, and which is printed to fund our socialism, is the greatest single funder of the drug cartels. Abolition plus welfare equals what we have, a drugged out society that is collapsing in on itself due to socialism and is getting many thousands of people killed. I don't want to forget to add that all governments take advantage of a crisis, and in such a way as to deprive its citizens of their liberties. Democrat, republican, it doesn't matter.
As so many things, the solution seems to be staring us right in the face, but we are inexorably determined to destroy the country, and our liberties.
Most of the rest of the world knows that also. Romney has to land on his feet running and let people know that this National nightmare is no longer hanging over our heads. His victory margin will be an outright mandate to clean house and get this country back on track.
Entrenched left wing bureaucrats and the MSM will fight him all the way but We The People have seen the results of losing the National focus that brought us to greatness before and are much wiser and more appreciative of what we had (freedom, optimism,) and don't want to lose it again.