If I understand the referenced Bible verses, they forbid homosexual activity, but don't condemn homosexuals per se. Those who enter the priesthood or take holy orders must be celibate, no matter what their sexual orientation. What you lock up in your heart is a sacrifice to God.
This is a disturbing story ('Corruption and scandal in the Catholic Church'), and I'm impressed with the strength of faith that could survive such a dark experience with religion. One can understand why many of those who go through the Catholic education system turn agnostic.
I wasn't going to continue on this subject, because I have many Catholic friends, and I do believe the current Catholic Church for the most part represents true Christians and true Christian belief.
It is just that as I read these comments and arguments, because anything to do with Religion, is really an argument, I am somewhat disturbed that so few people actually read History.
The history of the Catholic Church is rife with objectionable behavior. How many people were murdered and raped during the Crusades? I'm not making this up. It is a part of World History. Popes had Concubines. Popes had children, for God's sake! It was accepted as normal behavior Do your own research!
With the History of the Catholic Church being what it is, I am amused that any current criticism, is met with such outrageous anger, that any criticism of the Church is somehow forbidden. Let me give you a wake up call. No criticism of any religion is forbidden, and that includes Catholics and Muslims.
Let me soften up the mood of this conversation just a little bit. Abraham Lincoln was once asked by a reporter, (there were no Journalists in Lincoln's day) "What is your Religion? Fully aware of the trap that was placed in front of him, Lincoln, in his wisdom replied, "When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my Religion."
I believe Lincoln pretty much summed it up. Let's just treat each other the way God intended. Its not really complicated, when you think about it.
Has the gay movement infiltrated the Catholic Bastions for a reason akin to the liberals infiltrating our schools or the muslims inflitrating our government..............the results being a collapse of the enemy/resistance from within?
Coincidence obama has zeroed in on the Catholic Church, while promoting gays in every aspect of society?
"The Enemy from Within" has always been the most effective way to destroy an individual or institution by the degradation of moral judgment and good character, based on biblical principles. I have had conversations with fellow Catholics brothers and sisters who believe that the subject of abortion is a black and white issue while doing their best to interject the idea that homosexuality is gray, which for the latter yours truly does not understand nor accepts the logic. The gay community has always been on the search for ways to infiltrate and subvert the moral fabric of our great country and apparently believe that they have found a crack in the armor of Christ's church, where upon Peter, His rock, He will build His church. Never forget the history of great nations in past years which have suffered at the hands of immoral subversiveness.
News has just come out that a Cardinal has been accused of inappropriate behavior by three priests and one former priest:
This article by a conservative clergy author discusses 'gay' activity and sexual abuse in the church and describes the Pope's battle with the 'gay network' in the church hierarchy. It may be a source for the Guardian article above: http://www.churchmilitant.tv/documents/vort-2013-02-22.pdf
It wouldn't surprise me if this was true. The Catholic Church is certainly not a stranger to politics since it has been participating in them since it's beginning. Insidious men, with the help of some ignorant women, long before most of us were born inserted the social justice movement into the Catholic Church and then married it to the culture. Before the Church knew what evil hit them it became too late. Now most of the Church's time seems to be fighting forces within the Church instead of those outside of the Church. It's a pity. I am not Catholic but I do respect Catholics and value them.
Yep, we must take down the church because Big Gumint is the only true religion! LOL!
As a conservative female I just love it that those feminazi, dragon lady, abortion lovin', oppressive bigots can't be priests. God does have a sense of humor.
"Seriously damning material???" lol. Don't take the bait......Anti-Catholicism ignorance is alive and well in America I see. Oh well. God is going to have His Way. Regardless of the media approach to the Church Jesus Christ founded.
Maybe more "straight" men would consider service in the Church if they were allowed to marry. In the Armenian church we have two tiers of priests. One can marry, but won't make it up into the hierarchy, and the other cannot. It is the celibate that generally govern the church, but the married priests are the "robes on the ground", so to speak, in the local churches. Just a thought.
No disrespect to the Catholic Church, however. Just thinking out loud from my personal observations.
Vatican response, calls this claim an attempt by the media to influence the conclave. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_VATICAN_POPE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-02-23-08-05-25
We know how the Left wing media likes to twist the truth to their own ends.
So don't fall for it.
That's ridiculous. The left-wingers are now trying to play up the drama of radical liberalism in the Church while (unsuccessfully) attempting to undermine the admiration that Pope Benedict has earned.
The same thing is wrong with the Catholic Church as is with America. The left has taken over both. The Church threw out the Bible long ago and thus its continuing downfall.
Um, The Catholic Church threw out the Bible??? That's news to this lifelong Catholic. Stop getting your information about the Catholic Church from the secular news media, and let the Church speak for herself. It's astonishing how ignorant so many people are (including many who profess to be Catholic) about what the Church teaches. (I'm not talking about rouge individuals, I'm referring th the Magesterium,and the Deposit of Faith left by Jesus carried throughby Apostolic succession, always guided by the Holy Spirit) If you take on a serious and truthful investigation, you will laugh at yourself when you see the Truth. Really, you'll be EMBARASSED at how far off the mark you have been. Pray for discernment. And Wisdom. Ask and you shall recieve.
I do not get my information from secular news outlets. I get it first hand. My 90 year old Mother who was one of the most devout Catholics I have ever seen will no longer go to Mass as she says God is no longer in attendance at Catholic churches. She says they have become hideouts for decadent pedophiles which has been condoned by the church for years...
I will never understand any church that changes to meet modern standards.In the scripture God says,"I am the Lord your God.I change not.I am the same yesterday,today,and tomorrow.Pretty much sums up that the church should remain steadfast in their belief regardless of changing times.
The last time an election was taking place at the Vatican---the one Pope Benedict won--- a spokeman from the Vatican told a CNN reporter "People have no idea of the struggle going on within the Vatican". Good people fight for the good of their home, family and communities. The same is taking place in the Vatican. If all was about to be lost, you can be certain those good people would shout out to the world all that is going on.
@57thunderbird, AMEN! I am in my mid 60s and I was raised a Catholic. I went to Catholic grade school and high school. Over the course of my life I cannot believe the changes in the church. And to me none of them have been good. All of the changes have been a concession to the leftists in the church. I believe it is Satan's work.
Hi MadAsHellJack - I just wanted to say to you that for me - the peace came from within me....between me and my Jesus. For a long time I did not take communion and then stopped going to church....for years. I prayed about it a lot. I decided that God does want me to partake in that sacrament and have been taking communion ever since. I also do not feel guilty doing it. I follow Gods laws, not those set before me by other mortal humans who have as much sin as I do. That is also why I don't believe in "confession" thru a priest. I get great peace from the sacrament of communion and am so glad I made that choice. I don't care what others may say...my husband and I both take communion...we were not married in the church, but both were raised catholic. We even thought about changing religions, but then decided that we were more comfortable staying with the church we were raised with. I know just how you must feel. At a time in our life when we needed our church the most, they made us feel sinful and unworthy..abandoned in our darkest hour. That is not what God wants us to feel. All men are sinners. I hope you will consider continueing to practice your faith and not to let these mortal "rules" keep you from it. God Bless.
Mary I feel your pain. I am also divorced and there is no help for me as far as the church is concerned. I however don't care what they think as Jesus Christ is my Savior no matter what the Catholic church says.
The smoke of satan has indeed entered the catholic church. Satan is trying to tear it down. He will not succeed.
My dear nother has said several times, she never thought the Catholic church would abandon its centuries-long traditional conservatism, as it did at Vatican 2. Not in her lifetime. So many elderly just go along with things, not realizing anything. Younger people are easy to instruct.
But, we'll endure to the end, and better days are yet to come.
I also am catholic, MadAsHellJack....went to catholic school also. I agree with all you have said. I stopped going to confession years ago....I like to think I have a "direct line to God" thru prayer to confess my sins.....especially after finding out how sinful some of THEM were. Also, (I'm 60 now), went thru a bad divorce in my 20's...my spouse at that time abandoned me and my 2 small children...at the time I needed my church the most, I was abandoned again by the church...told I couldn't take communion, etc. I stayed away for years but have in the last several years returned to church , although I still do not follow all the beliefs. I was a good kid, too...played the music at mass every week, etc. But felt like a 2nd class citizen once I became divorced. I am remarried now to a great guy....have been for 35 years. He is catholic but we were not allowed to marry in the church because they still see me as married to that first guy - who was not catholic. In the churches eyes, I must get an annulment before we can get married in the church. BS. I had children by that marriage and don't want some piece of paper that says it never happened. The church has become corrupt, just like DC. You are right.
I respect your opinion as a parishoner of the Catholic church.Any time I want to say something concerning the Catholic church,I feel as though I am walking on eggshells.I know there are many faithful Christians that belong and I don't want to give the impression that I am criticizing them.I think they have a serious leadership problem,as do many other churches.Men/women are fallible creatures.Thus the need for a Savior.
Nothing would really surprise me when it comes to papal intrigue at the Vatican. After all, these are the same people that made a Borgia a pope. Also, there were a lot of rumors that Pope John Paul I (the pope that died only a few weeks after being made pope and was succeeded by the Polish John Paul II) was murdered because he wanted to institute some financial reforms at the Vatican. So this story here wouldn't surprise me one bit.
To be honest,the Vatican and Catholic church have no effect on my life,so whether true or not it has zero effect on my walk of faith.
Au Contraire my friend. They do have an effect. Millions of Catholics worldwide that follow the Pope and use his teachings and that effects their voting, polcies, etc. Pope John Paul II effected you when he helped Reagan end the Cold War.
Life doesn't happen in a vacuum.
You are so right, 57Tbird. I also don't think I/you have to go to church at all to be a good Christian. It's all about your walk with God. Amen.
Amen Mary.We do need to fellowship with other believers occasionally.It is very tough to be a lone ranger Christian.But sometimes organized religion(denominations)can be a detriment.The true church is in your heart.
You're a woman, I'm a woman. We have something at stake in the matter of abortion and what it does to the physical body and the spiritual aspects of us women.
I don't believe it's necessarily "moral superiority" that is speaking when hidden scientific truths are pointed out.
I believe it's a huge disservice to women in general not to warn them of what could lie ahead for them if they have an abortion.
The abortion breast cancer link is real but hidden from women. And that's to the shame of all that participate in allowing the health risks to remain hidden.
The risk for women who have had an abortion before having a full term pregnancy or even a natural miscarriage are significantly higher. They should know. Forewarned is forearmed. I counsel women who had abortions to be villagent in their health screenings. I'm not condemning them, I want them to keep their health.
..............excite and throw the cells in a tailspin..........? There's a description I've never heard. What on earth is that supposed to mean? I have stated here before, that I have 2 close friends who have put themselves in the unfortunate situation of having abortions, a long, long time ago. They suffer from enough guilt and shame without adding the sadness of a stillborn or God forbid CANCER to their anguish.
I really dislike when people (not necessarily you) in their moral superiority, preach about the evil that IS abortion. I can put a face to it and know the depth of their regret. They don't need the guilt of a disease like cancer to know the wrong they've done to both themselves and the unborn.
But communion can be taken amongst any group of believers.Does not have to be given by a man of the cloth.And should not be taken if one has an unrepentant heart.
It's true but there's a fellowship with like minded people I enjoy, and the most important aspect of all---partaking in Holy Communion. It is truly the body and blood of Jesus Christ, and Jesus said those who do not partake in this gift 'have no life in them.'
Our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit. God bought our bodies on the cross. Without Him taking all our sins away, we would all be condemned. This is huge.
When women say they can do whatever they want with their bodies,, and abort their own flesh and blood, as seen on an ultra sound, alive and kicking, they don't realize their bodies belong to God. God gave them the privilege and the gift of being co-creators with God of new souls. The devil talks to those women, and we better not dare to tell them the truth of the purpose of their existence.--oh, but we do have the responsibility to speak up. That way, they cannot say they didn't know. Science also shows abortions excite and throw the cells in a tailspin. It is in shock. Later in life, a woman could have a stillborn, a defective child, and even cancer. This is the new science that no media will print. CNN included---all those nice people who avoid anything to do with God, as if it would bring on a plague.
Conspiracy stories already abound especially from the left. Also the Vatican will protect itself with secrecy. We're left to believe what ever we want to believe according to our like or dislike of Catholicism.
The Vatican has been overly discreet, to say the least, about revealing what has been the '3rd secret' regarding the Virgin Mary at Fatima in 1917. So much evaluation has been done on this topic that a conclusion has been reached that the 3rd secret is the persecution of the Church brought upon itself for not consecrating Russia.
see www.fatima.org. This will end very soon, and we all hope the new Pope will be the one that fulfills the request of the consecration of Russia. WEhenever that happens, it will be very obvious to the world that a big change has taken place in the hearts and minds of the people and leaders of that country. This will result in obtaining "peace for a time". as Mary described it.
We'll find out very soon just what kind of Pope he will be.
Let's not rush to conclusions, or speculation; just take a wait see attitude.
This is a bunch of crap, and lies from the media. The Pope resigned because he cannot carry out the job of the Chair of Peter.
I don't expect the head of the church---a Pope---to lie.
I'll take him at his word. Apparently, he made his decision in March 2012 while in Mexico.
I've read the Texus Receptus, multiple times, and that is not true. Jesus was never recorded as starting a single church, and that wasn't why He was here, anyway.
The Apostle Peter? He had nothing to do with Catholicism, and biblical accounts show he spent very little time in Rome. On top of that, Apostle Peter was an Apostle that never started any church, much less set himself up as a king in one.
One question for Catholic posters, and I am in no way trying to diminish the religion. Why is it priest can not marry when the first pope of the church was married, St Peter.
I could be mistaken,but it goes way back in time and had something to do with land a wealth grabbing through marriage.It started as a legal thing.Correct me if I am wrong.
Here is a better place to go to understand things Catholic other than the Guardian or any secular media. Even if those media aren't necessarily hostile to the Catholic Church, they mostly get it wrong. Commentary on a celibate priesthood. http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/why-a-celibate-priesthood
I like your question. The answer is that a married man has to focus on both his family and the denomination of hundreds and even thousands of individuals in his congregation. He can't do both as well as just the focus on his work for Christ.
Some men can live with that and others can't. It isn't up to me to say what others are capable of doing or not. I know it's easier to avoid sex if it isn't started in the first place, but the men who stay celibate, do so to imitate Jesus, who was, of course, celibate.
I don't think Peter was married, but if he was, he didn't live very long to fulfill it.
I am catholic. I was always told, as a kid in parochial school, was so they could devote their entire life and energy to the church. Ever since the huge child abuse scandal came out, I have been hugely disappointed in how the church handled it. Much of the information now is hiddin at the Vatican. Locked away.
There is plenty locked away from the public inside the Vatican because it doesn't jive with the Catholic church.
Who has the largest collection of Pagan artifacts and doctorian? The Vatican.
All Catholics were disappointed---an understatement. I wrote a lot of letters to the Bishops and to Rome, and I didn't mince my words.
I'm telling you, the infiltration into the Vatican includes even Communists. We all know how the devil hates humans and wants to destroy all of us in any way he can.
As for the future of the Church. nothing that is bad lasts forever. We are approaching the time when things will be so horrific in the end, that Jesus will have to come and settle things down. He won't let His creations be annihilated.