Man and apes have a common ancestry simply means that at some point in the past, humans and apes are the result of a split. You have one animal that mutates, over time, to two other forms. One is human the other is ape. I don't think that evolution negates the Bible. I think that the Bible's story of creation is a simplified version for all to understand at the time of it's writing. Who is to say how it was intended. Just as many of the teachings in the Bible require interpretation and can change in meaning depending upon the state of mind of the reader, I think that creation has room for it as well. In the end, all animals both wild and man, come from the dirt. The process from dirt to man is irrelevant where the Bible is concerned since the Bible is far important to us for "why" rather than "how." Too many try to throw conflict in where it is unnecessary. The Bible tells us how to live as God's children and why we exist. Science tries to explain how it all happened in predictable repeatable concepts that do not require interpretation. They are exclusive and yet, I think, supportive. That's what it means to me.
I'm all for religion as long as it stays kinda fuzzy and helps you remember the golden rule. However it's dangerous to go getting to serious as if it was a real thing and you really understood. That's the big problem with moslems, they take their holy book to seriously. You can find plenty in the Bible you don't want to take literally, if you look.
Adults handle their responsibilities. Sex is an adult responsibility. Abortion is a type of surgery that is risky to everyone involved. Abortion is murder. When adults or kids choose to engage in adult responsibilities, they need to understand that there are other ways to handle it. San Francisco 49ers Colin Kapernick is a perfect example. His mother could have chosen abortion, but decided to have the child and give it to adoption and the child has been a blessing in the NFL. There are so many people who can't have children who would like to raise a child and will pay you for it. But, you have to handle this as an adult and not like some child who is brainwashed by the liberal media complex to use abortion as a form of eugenics (or Satan's work).
If you're anti-abortion then you advocate the violation of property rights, because you're basically telling women "You must let an organism live in your property (body) and eat your food (bodily resources)" which is the same as if you told someone "You must let a vagrant live in your property (house) and eat from your fridge". It's not right. It's a violation of their property rights. The woman, just like the homeowner, has the right to say "Get the hell out of my property and stop using my property", and has the right to forcibly remove that vagrant from their property. So what if the vagrant "needs" shelter and food to survive - Their "needs" do not trump the property owner's property rights.
If that vagrant died after being removed from the house and being denied food from that fridge, then you wouldn't say that the homeowner "murdered" the vagrant, would you? The same applies to women who remove pre-viable organisms from their bodies.
(Nukeman60 just shakes his head in total disbelief)
No need to even attempt an argument against this. Wow. It stands on it's own dismal, detestable, twisted merits. Of all your inane arguments for pro-death, this one tops them all. Property rights, indeed.
One wonders when a senior citizen will become non-viable. Or when a person with disabilities is non-viable. Or a person of different religion, race, or gender. Or someone with a name like Kordane.
One wonders. What a future to look forward to. I'm glad I don't (and won't ever) live in that future.
It's pointless to make inane remarks like how it's "dismal, detestable, twisted and pro-death". I could make exactly those same arguments about the "from conception" crowd's stance on abortion, but I don't because this issue is just like any other issue - It has to be discussed in an intellectual manner, rather than like a bunch of kids throwing insults in the schoolyard.
I don't see how you've even come up with this comment about seniors, disabled people and different races/religions being "non-viable". It has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've said.
The property rights argument for abortion is something new I came up with. I think it's a pretty great analogy to compare a pre-viable organism with a vagrant, since both living inside someone else's property, and both are being fed by someone else's property. That's where the analogy stops, but analogies don't have to be identical, after all.
'The property rights argument for abortion is something new I came up with.' - k
Aren't you so proud of yourself, then. However, it's not intellectually honest, so I couldn't care less about your patting yourself on the back. Go talk to someone else. No one here thought much of your assessment and I won't further it with my time.
Wow, Kordane, I had to stand on my head on the top of my house to try and see your point of view on the abortion issue.........and yet I could not agree with you in any part of your explanation of abortion and vagrants.
Do you know how babies are made?, that they are a PART of a man and a woman that can become nothing but a human being? NOT a vagrant!
Property rights do not come close to murder of an innocent. I'd direct the bum to the nearest shelter.
If you are pro death you believe abortions are a choice.
If you are pro life you believe abortion takes a life/kills........a life that is part of you and you do have choices how to handle the situation.
Quote: "Do you know how babies are made?, that they are a PART of a man and a woman that can become nothing but a human being? NOT a vagrant!"
It's called an analogy.
Quote: "Property rights do not come close to murder of an innocent. I'd direct the bum to the nearest shelter"
I'm not advocating killing it. I'm just advocating the woman's right to remove it from her body/property, just as she has the right to remove a vagrant from her house/property. If the pre-viable organism dies when removed from the woman's property, then that's just death through natural causes. It's not the woman's fault if nature has pre-disposed the pre-viable organism to be unable to survive when removed from the host woman. If you want to blame anything for it dying, then blame nature, or maybe blame your God, but don't blame the woman for observing her property rights.
Quote: "If you are pro death you believe abortions are a choice"
Actually, if you're pro-choice then you're pro-life, because you're standing up for the right to life, which is the source of all rights, including property rights. I'm pro the life of the woman, who the "from conception" crowd totally ignore in favor of a pre-viable organism.
Quite frankly, the "from conception" crowd are the real anti-life crowd, because they're against the right to life of the woman. She's not allowed, they say, to remove that pre-viable organism from her body/property. She got pregnant, they say, and so therefore all her unalienable individual rights are null and void (even though they're supposed to be "unalienable"), and she should be strapped down to a bed for 9 months until she gives birth whether she wants to or not.
Quote: "If you are pro life you believe abortion takes a life/kills"
You might 'believe' that, but I 'know' that abortion doesn't kill anything. Nature (aka. Your God) is what kills that pre-viable organism when it's removed. It dies from natural causes. The woman and the abortion doctor can't be blamed for nature pre-determining that it is unable to survive separately from the host. Again, if you want to blame something, then blame nature / your God.
Even if I did accept that a pre-viable organism had rights, then what rights are you alleging that it has, other than a right to live in and use someone else's property against their will, or in other words, the right to violate property rights?
That's what it boils down to.
It's just a blatant lie to deny property rights to the woman, and then claim that the woman is "free" and able to "pursue her happiness".
Again, nobody is talking about killing the pre-viable organism. All I'm talking about is removing it from her body/property. If it dies after being removed, then that's just death through natural causes. Nobody is to blame but nature.
If a vagrant "needed" to eat from your fridge and receive shelter by living in your house, you wouldn't be regarded as a "murderer" if you threw that vagrant out of your house and then they died soon afterwards. You'd know that your property rights come before anyone's "needs".
You're not pro-life if you go around preaching how a woman's unalienable individual rights become null and void just because they happen to get pregnant. Unalienable means unalienable, yet there you are, telling me straight to my face that the founding fathers got it wrong, that the unalienable individual rights are actually alienable, just so long as you get pregnant. I think the founding fathers would be very angry at you.
Still can't see your view on abortion as anything but word play. And a lot of words at that, to state you believe a woman's rights are the only ones that matter. My view on abortion includes the woman, man/father, and most importantly the innocent child's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
The women you are defending are alive, free and pursuing their happiness...........in her freedom she became pregnant with her and a man's child- quite inconvenient for her, she refused to use protection from pregnancy- so, let's kill the baby! She is pro death and I remain pro life........even after your lengthly stated views.
THOU SHALL NOT KILL!
How hard is this to understand?
If you are a moral individual you understand and follow this commandment.
If you are immoral you ignore this commandment and killing is just part of your philosophy.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg said she thought the landmark Roe v. Wade decision on abortion was predicated on the Supreme Court majority's desire to diminish “populations that we don’t want to have too many of.” (Eugenics, as adopted by Margret Sanger founder of Planned Parenthood)
For anyone that hasn't been watching these and are interested, I highly recommend them.
Stats say that everyone knows someone that has had an abortion whether you know it or not. Every church has someone(s). They are long at about 45 minutes each.
It is a post abortion bible study between five women at different ages and different stories about their abortion and the reasons and how all these years later they are still suffering. The season finale is March 5, I think. All episodes through tonight are posted.
I believe these will be helpful if you ever run across anyone contemplating the decision.
Jesus Himself warned of abortion and contraception. While bearing the weight of the cross on the way to His own murder, He found it important enough to say this:
"Weep not for me, daughters of Jerusalem, but for yourselves and your children. For the day is coming when they will say, 'blessed are the barren, the womb that bears no fruit.'. And people will wish the mountains to fall on them. For if they do these things when the wood is green, what will happen when it is dry?"
You have to wonder what lies before us.
"For [God's] invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they (mankind) are without excuse."
the problem is....
“[God] has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn..." and would be healed.
Some people are so obstinately bent on iniquity and evil that they will neither believe nor regard God even in the face of glaring truth. And because they are bent on evil they are blinded to the truth and can never see it.
That's why the salvation experience is a SUPERNATURAL event. It is the opening of the eyes of the sinner by the glorious power of the Holy Spirit.
"Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost but now I'm found, was BLIND but now I SEE."
Amen Zo Amen and we are becoming less human then apes..This made me cry ,
"If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him;
and he shall pay as the judges determine.
And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."
Exodus 21:22-25 (KJV)
"Did not he who made me in the womb make them?
Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?"
Job 31:15 (NIV)
"Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you even at my mother's breast.
From birth I was cast upon you;
from my mother's womb you have been my God"
Psalm 22:9-10 (NIV)
"And now the LORD says—he who formed me in the womb
to be his servant to bring Jacob back to him and
gather Israel to himself,
for I am honored in the eyes of the LORD
and my God has been my strength"
Isaiah 49:5 (NIV)
"For you created my inmost being;
You knit me together in my mother's womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,
Your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be"
Psalm 139:13-16 (NIV)
"Rescue those being led away to death;
hold back those staggering toward slaughter.
If you say, "But we knew nothing about this,"
Does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?
Does not he who guards your life know it?
Will he not repay each person according to what he has done?"
Proverbs 24:11-12 (NIV)
"Can a woman forget her sucking child,
that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb?
yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands;
thy walls are continually before me."
Isaiah 49:15-16 (KJV)
Just awesome, I offer a few more biblical versus speaking of the sanctity of life. The ones with the asterisks I find very telling. The web site I took these from is provided below. The internet can be used for finding good things, you need only to look
"God breathed life into man" does NOT mean he gave them breath (ie, allowed them to breathe oxygen through the lungs). It means he 'gave' them life (and a soul) at conception. Another strong point as to why we have no right to take that life away for the convenience of someone else.
Who are we to take away something precious that God has so chosen to give?
[ed] And "Breathed life" may translate as "spirit." ie, the difference between man and animal, as you hint at.
Think about the number of "oops" babies who come into the world, or those with deformities, or even those born fatherless, or to teenage mothers. How many of those children, though unexpected and unwanted, turned out to be a life-changing blessing to their families?
Or sex-selection abortions? Dear Lord forgive us!
We wanted a girl as our 2nd child, but got a boy. I - CANNOT - IMAGINE our family without him. Best kid ever. It is not for us to choose the gifts God gives us.
Awesome. I think that's what the libs miss. They think about their own choices and freedoms first. They think having a child will change their life.
What they don't realize is that it does. You won't ever be the same again. And you'll wonder how you could have valued your old life over what you have now. The best things in life come at the worst possible times and in the squirmiest little packages.
I praise God for your son. My daughter-in-law was 'pro-choice' (I don't usually use that word. I prefer what it is, pro-death) until she had her little girl. Thankfully now, she understands and couldn't imagine ever wanting to abort any child.
We win our battles one birth at a time. :)
It was an abomination to the Lord that the Israelites, and later, Judah, placed their babies in the fire to sacrifice to Molech. It was one of the reasons God judged both Israel and Judah. It is no less a pagan sacrifice today. America WILL be judged.
Such a serious issue (but I did love his shirt!)
This is very well said ZO. I've had many "discussions" with Christians who are some how pro abortion and still maintain they are Christian. These same folks are against the death penalty seeing it as cruel and unusual punishment. HUH!?
Thank you ZO. And thank you Scoop!